VOGONS


First post, by Grayshazzle

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hello everyone, how would I go about this exactly, I have a one storage device which is a CF Flash Adapter and a 16 GB Card for 6.22 of course. I am not putting a floppy drive in my system as I have no use for it when it comes to games and rather will run them off of my CF card. So as a result, I downloaded a CD installer version of DOS 6.22 here: https://archive.org/details/msdos622cdinstaller with mouse/keyboard support and all. So do I first just install with the shortcut prompt on the CD version of DOS? I will link a pic below. Then after when I also install the CD drivers do I have to set up certain commands to install Windows 98 SE? I heard that copying the files from the CD to the Drive and then running the setup file there is more efficient. Also how would I go about setting up a boot GUI when the OSs are installed, so when I boot it up I have a menu to go into 6.22 or just plain Windows 98 SE. Thanks. Also lastly I am not sure if this version of DOS 6.22 (CD Install Version) even requires a boot disc, I am pretty sure OEM versions do not but count me possibly wrong.

Attachments

Reply 1 of 15, by Errius

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

The problem with installing DOS 6.22 before Windows 98 is that you are stuck with a 2 GB partition. The way this is traditionally done is to boot from a Windows 98 startup floppy, which will detect and configure the CD-ROM drive, before launching the Windows installer on the CD-ROM. The Windows installer will then detect your hard drive and configure all 16 GB of it for use.

“Your mission is to attack and destroy the Apple Computer manufacturing plant. You are allotted 35 bombs and 60 lasers."

Reply 2 of 15, by Grayshazzle

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Errius wrote on 2020-11-29, 01:25:

The problem with installing DOS 6.22 before Windows 98 is that you are stuck with a 2 GB partition. The way this is traditionally done is to boot from a Windows 98 startup floppy, which will detect and configure the CD-ROM drive, before launching the Windows installer on the CD-ROM. The Windows installer will then detect your hard drive and configure all 16 GB of it for use.

What do you do if you don't have a floppy drive?

Reply 3 of 15, by Errius

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Try FreeDOS instead of MS-DOS 6.22? I'm not familiar with FreeDOS myself, but it will allow you to format the entire disk for Windows to later use.

“Your mission is to attack and destroy the Apple Computer manufacturing plant. You are allotted 35 bombs and 60 lasers."

Reply 4 of 15, by darry

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

If you don't mind me asking, why do you want to have DOS 6.22 ? Is there anything you plan to run that you know for a fact will not run under Windows 98 SE's DOS 7.1 ? Except Windows 3.x, I do not know of anything that runs under DOS 6.22 , but not under DOS 7.1 (EDIT except maybe some low level disk utilities that do not handle FAT32).

By the way, Windows 98 SE can very easily be configured to boot only into its included DOS 7.1 without launching Windows itself automatically . Launching Windows from there is just a question of running the "win" command .

EDIT : Just to be clear, "because you want to" is a perfectly valid reason and I'm not questioning your right to do whatever you want with your hardware. I just wanted to point out that , if there is no practical advantage to doing something, you may to considering abstaining from doing it in order make your life easier .

Last edited by darry on 2020-11-29, 02:21. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 5 of 15, by Caluser2000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
darry wrote on 2020-11-29, 01:54:

If you don't mind me asking, why do you want to have DOS 6.22 ? Is there anything you plan to run that you know for a fact will not run under Windows 98 SE's DOS 7.1 ? Except Windows 3.x, I do not know of anything that runs under DOS 6.22 , but not under DOS 7.1 .

By the way, Windows 98 SE can very easily be configured to boot only into its included DOS 7.1 without launching Windows itself automatically . Launching Windows from there is just a question of running the "win" command .

As above. Older utilities for Fat16 or not recognition a huge amount of ram will fail but most other programs will run fine.

There's a glitch in the matrix.

Reply 6 of 15, by Grayshazzle

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Errius wrote on 2020-11-29, 01:44:

Try FreeDOS instead of MS-DOS 6.22? I'm not familiar with FreeDOS myself, but it will allow you to format the entire disk for Windows to later use.

How about using the CD installation version of DOS 6.22 that I linked?

Reply 7 of 15, by Errius

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

DOS 6.22 cannot create partitions larger than 2 GB. You can install Windows on this, and then create additional data partitions, but it's not ideal.

“Your mission is to attack and destroy the Apple Computer manufacturing plant. You are allotted 35 bombs and 60 lasers."

Reply 8 of 15, by Grayshazzle

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Errius wrote on 2020-11-29, 02:15:

DOS 6.22 cannot create partitions larger than 2 GB. You can install Windows on this, and then create additional data partitions, but it's not ideal.

Then should I just install freedos and windows or just windows with 7.1 built in. People say there are some issues with 7.1 compatibility.

Reply 9 of 15, by Errius

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

FreeDOS would just be a temporary measure to enable you to format the full drive and copy the Windows installation files onto it. FreeDOS can be booted from CD-ROM or SD card, so bypassing the need for a floppy drive. Installing Windows will remove FreeDOS and install MS-DOS 7.1. You don't have to think about FreeDOS again after that.

(At least I think that will work. I as I said, I'm not actually familiar with FreeDOS. I have never installed Windows 98 on a computer with no floppy drive.)

“Your mission is to attack and destroy the Apple Computer manufacturing plant. You are allotted 35 bombs and 60 lasers."

Reply 10 of 15, by darry

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Grayshazzle wrote on 2020-11-29, 02:36:
Errius wrote on 2020-11-29, 02:15:

DOS 6.22 cannot create partitions larger than 2 GB. You can install Windows on this, and then create additional data partitions, but it's not ideal.

Then should I just install freedos and windows or just windows with 7.1 built in. People say there are some issues with 7.1 compatibility.

I use Windows 98 SE's DOS 7.1 exclusively for DOS and have never had an issue with applications/games even when Windows 98 SE was current (not with Windows 95's DOS 7.0 either) .That's not to say there aren't any potential issues, just that I have never experienced one . The only exception to this is old system utilities that are not long filename or FAT32 aware, but there is no reason to use those nowadays .

Do you have any examples of incompatibilities that you have heard of ? Specific examples of software with incompatibilities or links to reports by users experiencing issues could be helpful to other users considering the same options that you are .

EDIT : See these threads :
Football Pro 96 - Dosbox or Dos?
Are there any games that are incompatible with newer versions of DOS?

EDIT : TLDR . With the possible exception of Bio Menace (for which there is a patch) and possibly very old (early 1980s) games there should be no issues with running DOS 7.1 . Even DOS 6.22 has potential compatibility issues, it's not as if anything can be absolutely 100% backwards compatible . IMHO, DOS 7.1 is extremely backwards compatible .

Reply 11 of 15, by Errius

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I also used to be suspicious of DOS 7.1, and was annoyed that it was not possible to force Windows to leave the 6.22 installation alone. (It can be done with a boot manager. This will hide the MS-DOS partition from the Windows installer, allowing you to have both 6.22 and 7.1 on the same system.) However I've never encountered a problem with 7.1.

“Your mission is to attack and destroy the Apple Computer manufacturing plant. You are allotted 35 bombs and 60 lasers."

Reply 12 of 15, by Grayshazzle

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
darry wrote on 2020-11-29, 02:54:
I use Windows 98 SE's DOS 7.1 exclusively for DOS and have never had an issue with applications/games even when Windows 98 SE wa […]
Show full quote
Grayshazzle wrote on 2020-11-29, 02:36:
Errius wrote on 2020-11-29, 02:15:

DOS 6.22 cannot create partitions larger than 2 GB. You can install Windows on this, and then create additional data partitions, but it's not ideal.

Then should I just install freedos and windows or just windows with 7.1 built in. People say there are some issues with 7.1 compatibility.

I use Windows 98 SE's DOS 7.1 exclusively for DOS and have never had an issue with applications/games even when Windows 98 SE was current (not with Windows 95's DOS 7.0 either) .That's not to say there aren't any potential issues, just that I have never experienced one . The only exception to this is old system utilities that are not long filename or FAT32 aware, but there is no reason to use those nowadays .

Do you have any examples of incompatibilities that you have heard of ? Specific examples of software with incompatibilities or links to reports by users experiencing issues could be helpful to other users considering the same options that you are .

EDIT : See these threads :
Football Pro 96 - Dosbox or Dos?
Are there any games that are incompatible with newer versions of DOS?

EDIT : TLDR . With the possible exception of Bio Menace (for which there is a patch) and possibly very old (early 1980s) games there should be no issues with running DOS 7.1 . Even DOS 6.22 has potential compatibility issues, it's not as if anything can be absolutely 100% backwards compatible . IMHO, DOS 7.1 is extremely backwards compatible .

Thank you, I have decided I will just install Windows 98, it will work fine for me. The whole DOS 6.22 thing will just cause more confusion for me and this is my first 98 build. It should work just fine. Plus I am pretty sure you can find game fixes for 7.1 as well without a whole new OS like 6.22. Thanks.

Reply 13 of 15, by darry

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Grayshazzle wrote on 2020-11-29, 03:16:
darry wrote on 2020-11-29, 02:54:
I use Windows 98 SE's DOS 7.1 exclusively for DOS and have never had an issue with applications/games even when Windows 98 SE wa […]
Show full quote
Grayshazzle wrote on 2020-11-29, 02:36:

Then should I just install freedos and windows or just windows with 7.1 built in. People say there are some issues with 7.1 compatibility.

I use Windows 98 SE's DOS 7.1 exclusively for DOS and have never had an issue with applications/games even when Windows 98 SE was current (not with Windows 95's DOS 7.0 either) .That's not to say there aren't any potential issues, just that I have never experienced one . The only exception to this is old system utilities that are not long filename or FAT32 aware, but there is no reason to use those nowadays .

Do you have any examples of incompatibilities that you have heard of ? Specific examples of software with incompatibilities or links to reports by users experiencing issues could be helpful to other users considering the same options that you are .

EDIT : See these threads :
Football Pro 96 - Dosbox or Dos?
Are there any games that are incompatible with newer versions of DOS?

EDIT : TLDR . With the possible exception of Bio Menace (for which there is a patch) and possibly very old (early 1980s) games there should be no issues with running DOS 7.1 . Even DOS 6.22 has potential compatibility issues, it's not as if anything can be absolutely 100% backwards compatible . IMHO, DOS 7.1 is extremely backwards compatible .

Thank you, I have decided I will just install Windows 98, it will work fine for me. The whole DOS 6.22 thing will just cause more confusion for me and this is my first 98 build. It should work just fine. Plus I am pretty sure you can find game fixes for 7.1 as well without a whole new OS like 6.22. Thanks.

I am confident that this should work well for you . If ever you do need to boot another version of DOS (if you want to try Windows 3.1, for example), the fact that you are using a CF card adapter should make it easy to just use pop in another CF card, install whatever DOS you need to it and swap CF cards as needed .

If you don't want Windows 98 SE to start automatically at boot, you need to edit msdos.sys and change BootGUI=1 to BootGUI=0 . See http://www.mdgx.com/msdos.htm for details or ask here if you need more information .

Best of luck with your setup . You have lots of fun in front of you .

Reply 14 of 15, by Grayshazzle

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
darry wrote on 2020-11-29, 03:33:
I am confident that this should work well for you . If ever you do need to boot another version of DOS (if you want to try Windo […]
Show full quote
Grayshazzle wrote on 2020-11-29, 03:16:
darry wrote on 2020-11-29, 02:54:
I use Windows 98 SE's DOS 7.1 exclusively for DOS and have never had an issue with applications/games even when Windows 98 SE wa […]
Show full quote

I use Windows 98 SE's DOS 7.1 exclusively for DOS and have never had an issue with applications/games even when Windows 98 SE was current (not with Windows 95's DOS 7.0 either) .That's not to say there aren't any potential issues, just that I have never experienced one . The only exception to this is old system utilities that are not long filename or FAT32 aware, but there is no reason to use those nowadays .

Do you have any examples of incompatibilities that you have heard of ? Specific examples of software with incompatibilities or links to reports by users experiencing issues could be helpful to other users considering the same options that you are .

EDIT : See these threads :
Football Pro 96 - Dosbox or Dos?
Are there any games that are incompatible with newer versions of DOS?

EDIT : TLDR . With the possible exception of Bio Menace (for which there is a patch) and possibly very old (early 1980s) games there should be no issues with running DOS 7.1 . Even DOS 6.22 has potential compatibility issues, it's not as if anything can be absolutely 100% backwards compatible . IMHO, DOS 7.1 is extremely backwards compatible .

Thank you, I have decided I will just install Windows 98, it will work fine for me. The whole DOS 6.22 thing will just cause more confusion for me and this is my first 98 build. It should work just fine. Plus I am pretty sure you can find game fixes for 7.1 as well without a whole new OS like 6.22. Thanks.

I am confident that this should work well for you . If ever you do need to boot another version of DOS (if you want to try Windows 3.1, for example), the fact that you are using a CF card adapter should make it easy to just use pop in another CF card, install whatever DOS you need to it and swap CF cards as needed .

If you don't want Windows 98 SE to start automatically at boot, you need to edit msdos.sys and change BootGUI=1 to BootGUI=0 . See http://www.mdgx.com/msdos.htm for details or ask here if you need more information .

Best of luck with your setup . You have lots of fun in front of you .

Thanks man, I appreciate it 😁

Reply 15 of 15, by xcomcmdr

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Same here, DOS 7.X works just as well as any previous version of DOS. There's no need at all for a complicated setup.
Microsoft was (and arguably still is) the king when retro-compatibility was concerned.
Because it sells operating systems.