VOGONS


First post, by 386SX

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Hello,

I've a mini-itx board that should require specifically only Win 7 32bit I don't have, so to test the weak iGPU I installed on it my own genuine Win 8.1 32bit o.s. but with slower results that I know the older o.s. would run on it. I installed correctly all the drivers and everything works even if a bit under the stress of such heavy o.s., but I suppose the accelerated Dx9 GUI and the various changes on this version doesn't make it perfectly compatible with the Intel GMA gpu. I was wondering if beside some DirectDraw simulator that did speed up a bit old games rendering, there're any ways to really make the o.s. work just like Win 7 should. I think I've read somewhere that Win 10 did introduce some tweaker for older games that Win 8.x don't have and in fact the few compatibility options doesn't change anything. Considering everything anyway works and the driver model of the GPU is WDDM 1.1, which are the possibilities before buying an already discontinued o.s. in the retail version? The driver does work and install on Win 8.x and even DXVA acceleration works. But old Dx6/7 tests run like half the frame rate it would run on Win 7. Directx9 games instead depends a lot on the gpu limitation so no increase are really possible there.
Any way to make Win 8.x to run in a old syle GUI and lighter mode?

Thanks

Last edited by 386SX on 2022-02-16, 17:41. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 8, by DosFreak

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What GPU?
What driver version?
If it's a driver issue with the WDDM drive then you can put Windows 7 on there and use the XPDM driver if you believe that worked better. Not sure why anyone would want to use 8 over 7 anyway.

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Reply 2 of 8, by 386SX

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The GPU is a GMA3600 (SGX545), the driver is the last one released before support ended .1096
I know this gpu is weak but I'm sure I've seen some tests on Win 7 (Home while it should run better on Starter) where for example 3DMark2000 in the low detail tests reached from 60 to 90fps (Adventure even reached more than 100fps at start) while on Win 8.x seems like the whole Directx7 compatibility is decreased and frame rates (like in games) is much slower and even slower than a time correct card like less than a Savage4 with Win98. Instead the same game using a Directx9 path engine would fly on this gpu like three maybe more times the frame rates. It's not a GPU weakness, more the retrocompatibility imho of Win 8.1 and the older WDDM 1.1 driver. Cause beside the slow GPU this can even run Doom3 and Far Cry, at low details and like 15fps and I'd expect this to render Directx6/7 games with no effort at all.
I'd use Win 7 to make these test but I simply don't own it since the last netbook I had in the past. The only "modern" Win I have is 8.1 with my retail box, dvds and license.

Last edited by 386SX on 2022-02-16, 17:54. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 3 of 8, by Jo22

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Windows 7 was the last OS to support XPDM drivers, I vaguely remember.

Windows 8.1 can use Windows 7 drivers, but I'm not sure if it can use Vista (WDDM 1.0) drivers, still. 🤷‍♂️

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 5 of 8, by 386SX

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From the tests it seems like it can even use the WDDM 1.0 driver (FX 5200 for example at least the last ones) and while the GUI suffer a lot on the speed side (like a software accelerated gui) it seems that old games does run but would have problem anyway also with other old gpu. I suppose that's why there was a compatibility tool on Win 10 but I think there's no trace of it on Win 8.
Directx9 games instead simply reach the expected gpu limit (even if I suppose they would run better anyway on older o.s.) but I wonder if it's possible to make the Win 8.1 more "retro compatible" in some way and lighter in the GUI side. I suppose the Win 7 GUI was already quite heavy too but on this much more run in background, the gui is more demanding and it seems like when a game start the rendering might not be separated from the other tasks like in the old o.s. Also Win 7 let to set a very classic GUI setting like the Starter version had.

I think I've tried those wrapper but didn't help (I suppose cause the weak cpu) while the only frame boost came with a directdraw sort of mini dll that helped but still not as it would be expected from a 400Mhz Directx9 gpu running such old games.

Last edited by 386SX on 2022-02-27, 10:09. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 6 of 8, by DosFreak

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With Windows 8 DWM is always active whereas with 7 you can disable it. Using XP drivers always disabled it IIRC.
Think I remember back when Vista came out having issues with buggy drivers and DWM but it's been a long time since I've messed around with crap video drivers on crap gpus heh.

You could try and see if Linux provides a better graphics experience but more than likely it would at best be a wash.

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Reply 7 of 8, by 386SX

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Unfortunately linux situation is even worse cause the only driver released was for a very old kernel to compile and for long discontinued linux distributions. Later it was released a 2D only driver module that works for the GUI only but more like a compatibility driver without much hardware acceleration (if there's any used at all).
It's already good the gpu does work in Win 8.x and the GUI is accelerated like the (few) games that run without problems but quite a complex gpu to the point it gets interesting to test it. Unfortunately the driver support has been a long discussed problem and the 32bit only release forced the x64 cpu to use a x86 o.s. anyway.
Anyway I finished both Thief and Thief II games with this gpu at early Directx6 video card speed levels.. 😁

Reply 8 of 8, by Jo22

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DosFreak wrote on 2022-02-16, 17:58:

You can try dgvoodoo2 and see if it works with that video card

+1

nGlide might be another option, in case it doesn't work.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//