You need two machines for this.

Windows 98SE 'fast' and Windows 98 'slow'.

For the Windows 98 fast, max it out. GPU should be nothing newer than a GeForce FX (the versions compatible with 45.23, that means to say, not an FX5700). Use Directx9.

For Windows 98 slow, GeForce 2 class with Detonator 6.32 and DirectX 6.

Even DirectX 7 breaks compatibility with games. Turok is an example of this, IIRC.

Moved to Marvin -> Software.

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-03, 20:07:

derpmochump wrote on 2022-03-03, 20:00:

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-03-03, 19:36:

You can delete DirectX completely with utility called DirectX Eradicator and install what you want. Obviously, anything below DirectX 7.0a could lead to problems on ME.

I ran dx eradicator 2.0 then rebooted, then installed dx 8.2 and rebooted and now it's stuck on reboot windows screen with the drum and drumsticks 'updating system settings...'

I am going to go AFK for awhile now and see if it goes through.

I hope it turns out OK. This is the gamble I have tired of taking with Windows 9X for many years now. There was fun in trying to get things working without starting from scratch, but life is too short.

Yes in the end it turned out okay.
After 2 ctrl+alt+dels, the 'update' went through, i put in dxdiag (it wouldn't load properly; so bugged)
so i went to install it all over again and it went through that time no problem, dxdiag ran.
Then i noticed there was a roll back dxdiag shortcut placed on the desktop and it took me back to 7.0a
then i reinstalled dx8.2 once again, went through np, dxdiag is good.

After that I bench marked all games again and no difference in performance, no idea if a reinstall would change anything, but Idk I am happy enough with it showing dx8.1 now.

mockingbird wrote on 2022-03-03, 21:00:

You need two machines for this. […]
Show full quote

You need two machines for this.

Windows 98SE 'fast' and Windows 98 'slow'.

For the Windows 98 fast, max it out. GPU should be nothing newer than a GeForce FX (the versions compatible with 45.23, that means to say, not an FX5700). Use Directx9.

For Windows 98 slow, GeForce 2 class with Detonator 6.32 and DirectX 6.

Even DirectX 7 breaks compatibility with games. Turok is an example of this, IIRC.

Oh I gave up on a slow windows 98 machine, I just use pcem for that.
I do have a nice fast win98 laptop, it's good.

Greetings,

I've seen BSODs with some VXD sound drivers if I go beyond DirectX 7.0a so sometimes that's what I run. For WinMe this is a problem because it shipped with DX7.1 and that is trouble with the sound VXDs. Technically you are not supposed to use VXDs with WinME so maybe this is why.

If something needs a newer version, like say nForce APU audio, then I go higher.

swaaye wrote on 2022-03-04, 01:24:

Greetings,

I've seen BSODs with some VXD sound drivers if I go beyond DirectX 7.0a so sometimes that's what I run. For WinMe this is a problem because it shipped with DX7.1 and that is trouble with the sound VXDs. Technically you are not supposed to use VXDs with WinME so maybe this is why.

If something needs a newer version, like say nForce APU audio, then I go higher.

I've only ever heard of this issue with Aureal Vortex cards...

mockingbird wrote on 2022-03-04, 03:55:

I've only ever heard of this issue with Aureal Vortex cards...

Yeah it's definitely a problem for some Aureal drivers. I have a feeling I've run into it with some Creative VXD drivers too though.

I feel like it's a good idea to stop at 7.0a unless the drivers specifically support DirectX 8 or later.

Which reminds me that there's also an issue with WDM audio on 98SE. The nForce APU drivers require a Microsoft WDM hotfix to work properly with some games on 98SE. Max Payne is one example.
Re: nForce 1 (220/415/420 aka Crush 11/12) thread

For what it's worth, I use DirectX 9.0a on my higher tier Windows 9x rig because it's the version that my sound card driver (Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS) requires. I haven't had any issues related to it so far. I've used both Windows 98SE and ME on this computer.

I was experiencing issues with the system rebooting or games freezing, but it turned out to be an overheating graphics card. After replacing the graphics card with a known good one, the issues went away. Both cards were Geforce4 cards (the problematic one was a Ti4200 and the working one is an MX440) using the 45.23 drivers.

My issue with sticking with DX7.1 is that you have games in 2001 that already force you to install DX8 (Red Faction for example), and I see no reason why would one use WME if one wanted to stick to DX7-era and older games. I see it as a beefed-up (or bloated-up, however one sees it) release of 9x that is more suited to running programs that already targeted NT5 (think 2000-2004, maybe 2005 if you stretch it), with the advantage of also running older Win32 and DOS programs rather well.

And if you have to install DX8, you might as well install DX9 as that is what some later software requires. Unless DX8 does something that DX9 cannot, or DX9 breaks something that DX8 doesn't?

It's DirectX 7.0a you'd want to stay with. I tried WinME's DirectX 7.1 with the specific troublesome Vortex 2 drivers and they were killing the kernel there too. I don't know if it's possible to rig up WinME with an older DirectX than it came with. If there are solid WDM drivers available for the hardware, get on Win2k/XP instead, otherwise might as well keep it simpler with 98SE.

I have good results with DirectX 8.1. There are some games in early Windows XP era that require DirectX 8 and are also playable on a good Windows 98/Me machine - Fifa 2004, Nhl 2004, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2.

Definitely not DirectX 9 or NVidia driver later than 53.04.

"Simple" answer - depends on your graphics card and graphics driver version. If you're running a TNT2 with an early driver, DX 6 or 7 are fine. If you're running a FX 5900XT with forceware 5x.xx you'll want DX8. Without DX8 installed you might not get direct 3d hardware acceleration depending on your driver.

I stumbled upon this issue a month ago when setting up my "HP" Vectra 420 (... actually an empty vectra case and PSU with an Asus P4p800-VM + P4 2800 1MB and the stock cooler that came with the vectra - the vectra's original motheboard died). I use a low profile FX 5700LE in the PC and it dual boots XP and 98.

At first I didn't want to install DX8 - I wanted to stick with DX7 witch is needed for one of my games, but the nvidia driver I prefer using with windows 98 for FX series cards (44.03) would not detect my GPU. So I went with the earliest driver that did - 56.64. Turns out that while 44.03 works fine with DX7 only, with 56.64 I couldn't get Direct 3D until I installed Direct X 8.1. Mechwarrior 3 would not detect my graphics card, and DXDIAG was displaying "Direct 3D Acceleration: Not Supported". After installing DX 8.1 everything was working as expected.

It also depends on the rest of your system. I installed DX 8.1 on my K6-2 400(66x6) / Via VPX build to test out an FX5500 PCI and it slowed everything down drastically. Boot times tripled and the PC was sluggish overall. To fix this I decided to go with a Voodoo Banshee PCI and DX 7, since none of the games that can run well on that PC require DX8, and the PC is a lot snappier with DX7.

Socket3 wrote on 2022-05-06, 18:56:

At first I didn't want to install DX8 - I wanted to stick with DX7 witch is needed for one of my games, but the nvidia driver I prefer using with windows 98 for FX series cards (44.03) would not detect my GPU. So I went with the earliest driver that did - 56.64. Turns out that while 44.03 works fine with DX7 only, with 56.64 I couldn't get Direct 3D until I installed Direct X 8.1. Mechwarrior 3 would not detect my graphics card, and DXDIAG was displaying "Direct 3D Acceleration: Not Supported". After installing DX 8.1 everything was working as expected.

I tested a few NVidia drivers here Re: HELP! - GeForce FX5600 in win98se and 56.64 came out as a terrible driver. 53.04 was the fastest and still compatible with DX7 games. For FX 5700LE a better option would probably be adding a new device into 53.04 driver and use that version.

AlexZ wrote on 2022-05-06, 20:26:

Socket3 wrote on 2022-05-06, 18:56:

At first I didn't want to install DX8 - I wanted to stick with DX7 witch is needed for one of my games, but the nvidia driver I prefer using with windows 98 for FX series cards (44.03) would not detect my GPU. So I went with the earliest driver that did - 56.64. Turns out that while 44.03 works fine with DX7 only, with 56.64 I couldn't get Direct 3D until I installed Direct X 8.1. Mechwarrior 3 would not detect my graphics card, and DXDIAG was displaying "Direct 3D Acceleration: Not Supported". After installing DX 8.1 everything was working as expected.

I tested a few NVidia drivers here Re: HELP! - GeForce FX5600 in win98se and 56.64 came out as a terrible driver. 53.04 was the fastest and still compatible with DX7 games. For FX 5700LE a better option would probably be adding a new device into 53.04 driver and use that version.

I tired adding the LE to 44.03 but I get glitches and instability in some games, namely Dungeon Keeper 2 (hang or BSOD) and Max Payne (texture glitches). 56.64's been working fine so far. I haven't encountered any issues.