typh0id wrote on 2022-04-09, 18:26:

So as mentioned in my recent post about Quake/Hexen, there a few games (particularly older 3D games) that really, really dislike […]
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So as mentioned in my recent post about Quake/Hexen, there a few games (particularly older 3D games) that really, really dislike the onboard graphics of my Win98 Laptop (Dell Latitude D505 - Intel 82852/82855 GM/GME Extreme Graphics 2 for Mobile). Most I've been able to fix with some help:

Hexen II - Working in hardware mode thanks to the Hammer of Thyrion sourceport
Quake - Working in hardware mode thank to Quakespasm sourceport (thanks DOSFreak!)
Metal Gear Solid - Working in hardware mode thanks to the Vista/XP noCD patch 1.0 (that just happens to also work on 98)

So that just leaves Twisted Metal 2, which is kind of a weird one. When I first installed Win98 with the default DirectX6.1, TM2 would run and play but only in software mode. It would crash trying to load a level in hardware mode. Once I upgraded DirectX to anything 7 or above (needed for the majority of my other games) the game would still start and let me go through the menus just fine, but once I tried to actually start playing, the game would again crash during loading screen. This now happens either in software mode or hardware mode. The official patch (1.2, I think) doesn't help either. The game simply can't load a level any more.

What's even weirder is that if I install it on my newer XP laptop, it runs perfectly fine without any issue (other than the cars spinning really fast on the selection screen, but I can live with that). But I really want to run this game on my 98 laptop since I try to keep the games I put on each one as era-appropriate as possible (95 to about 2001 for the 98 laptop, 2001 and onward for the XP).

Does anyone know of any patches or workarounds to get Twisted Metal 2 to stop being grumpy?

Thanks!

This is more of a first attempt but did you try changing to other resolutions? Certain resolutions sometimes crash, even on my PC

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-04-09, 19:02:

typh0id wrote on 2022-04-09, 18:26:

So as mentioned in my recent post about Quake/Hexen, there a few games (particularly older 3D games) that really, really dislike […]
Show full quote

So as mentioned in my recent post about Quake/Hexen, there a few games (particularly older 3D games) that really, really dislike the onboard graphics of my Win98 Laptop (Dell Latitude D505 - Intel 82852/82855 GM/GME Extreme Graphics 2 for Mobile). Most I've been able to fix with some help:

Hexen II - Working in hardware mode thanks to the Hammer of Thyrion sourceport
Quake - Working in hardware mode thank to Quakespasm sourceport (thanks DOSFreak!)
Metal Gear Solid - Working in hardware mode thanks to the Vista/XP noCD patch 1.0 (that just happens to also work on 98)

So that just leaves Twisted Metal 2, which is kind of a weird one. When I first installed Win98 with the default DirectX6.1, TM2 would run and play but only in software mode. It would crash trying to load a level in hardware mode. Once I upgraded DirectX to anything 7 or above (needed for the majority of my other games) the game would still start and let me go through the menus just fine, but once I tried to actually start playing, the game would again crash during loading screen. This now happens either in software mode or hardware mode. The official patch (1.2, I think) doesn't help either. The game simply can't load a level any more.

What's even weirder is that if I install it on my newer XP laptop, it runs perfectly fine without any issue (other than the cars spinning really fast on the selection screen, but I can live with that). But I really want to run this game on my 98 laptop since I try to keep the games I put on each one as era-appropriate as possible (95 to about 2001 for the 98 laptop, 2001 and onward for the XP).

Does anyone know of any patches or workarounds to get Twisted Metal 2 to stop being grumpy?

Thanks!

This is more of a first attempt but did you try changing to other resolutions? Certain resolutions sometimes crash, even on my PC

Oh yeah, I did. Makes no difference on this one.

typh0id wrote on 2022-04-09, 19:05:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-04-09, 19:02:

typh0id wrote on 2022-04-09, 18:26:

So as mentioned in my recent post about Quake/Hexen, there a few games (particularly older 3D games) that really, really dislike […]
Show full quote

So as mentioned in my recent post about Quake/Hexen, there a few games (particularly older 3D games) that really, really dislike the onboard graphics of my Win98 Laptop (Dell Latitude D505 - Intel 82852/82855 GM/GME Extreme Graphics 2 for Mobile). Most I've been able to fix with some help:

Hexen II - Working in hardware mode thanks to the Hammer of Thyrion sourceport
Quake - Working in hardware mode thank to Quakespasm sourceport (thanks DOSFreak!)
Metal Gear Solid - Working in hardware mode thanks to the Vista/XP noCD patch 1.0 (that just happens to also work on 98)

So that just leaves Twisted Metal 2, which is kind of a weird one. When I first installed Win98 with the default DirectX6.1, TM2 would run and play but only in software mode. It would crash trying to load a level in hardware mode. Once I upgraded DirectX to anything 7 or above (needed for the majority of my other games) the game would still start and let me go through the menus just fine, but once I tried to actually start playing, the game would again crash during loading screen. This now happens either in software mode or hardware mode. The official patch (1.2, I think) doesn't help either. The game simply can't load a level any more.

What's even weirder is that if I install it on my newer XP laptop, it runs perfectly fine without any issue (other than the cars spinning really fast on the selection screen, but I can live with that). But I really want to run this game on my 98 laptop since I try to keep the games I put on each one as era-appropriate as possible (95 to about 2001 for the 98 laptop, 2001 and onward for the XP).

Does anyone know of any patches or workarounds to get Twisted Metal 2 to stop being grumpy?

Thanks!

This is more of a first attempt but did you try changing to other resolutions? Certain resolutions sometimes crash, even on my PC

Oh yeah, I did. Makes no difference on this one.

I am not sure if it works or not but my last opinions here would be:

Reinstall the DirectX from the game CD (and uninstall, idk if its possible)
or
Copy ddraw.dll+d3dim.dll from the CD directx cab? package to the main executable directory.

I'd install a newer DirectX TBH. Intel Extreme Graphics 82xxx falls in the post-DX8 era as the popular GPU for the Dell Dudes. Forcing DX5 on as blindly suggested above would just mean more trouble

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-04-09, 19:11:

I am not sure if it works or not but my last opinions here would be: […]
Show full quote

I am not sure if it works or not but my last opinions here would be:

Reinstall the DirectX from the game CD (and uninstall, idk if its possible)
or
Copy ddraw.dll+d3dim.dll from the CD directx cab? package to the main executable directory.

I'm not too keen to install an older copy of DirectX from the disc. I know it's not supposed to overwrite newer versions but things don't always work that way. I will try the second thing you suggested though.

leileilol wrote on 2022-04-10, 00:39:

I'd install a newer DirectX TBH. Intel Extreme Graphics 82xxx falls in the post-DX8 era as the popular GPU for the Dell Dudes. Forcing DX5 on as blindly suggested above would just mean more trouble

Oh, I apologize for being unclear. I am currently running DirectX9.0c (the last version of it to run under Win98). I was just saying that before I upgraded from 6.1, Twisted Metal 2 would run in software mode. BUt no, I had no intention of leaving DirectX at 6.1 because too many of my other games need newer versions. But I did, at various points, try versions of 7 and 8 and both caused the game to crash just like 9.

leileilol wrote on 2022-04-10, 00:39:

I'd install a newer DirectX TBH. Intel Extreme Graphics 82xxx falls in the post-DX8 era as the popular GPU for the Dell Dudes. Forcing DX5 on as blindly suggested above would just mean more trouble

As to what I remember, Windows 98 in my retail OEM disk installed DirectX 6.1a by default, so DirectX shouldn't get "installed forcefully" in this way, at least I remember I couldn't install DirectX 6.0 back when I had DirectX 8.1 installed. So yeah, the first method won't change anything to the result usually.

typh0id wrote on 2022-04-10, 12:56:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-04-09, 19:11:

I am not sure if it works or not but my last opinions here would be: […]
Show full quote

I am not sure if it works or not but my last opinions here would be:

Reinstall the DirectX from the game CD (and uninstall, idk if its possible)
or
Copy ddraw.dll+d3dim.dll from the CD directx cab? package to the main executable directory.

I'm not too keen to install an older copy of DirectX from the disc. I know it's not supposed to overwrite newer versions but things don't always work that way. I will try the second thing you suggested though.

Actually you are not installing DirectX this way, you are just using a proxy for the game. I use this mostly with DPLAY but maybe D3D/DDraw even works. At least it shouldn't corrupt your system files and folders.

Well copying the old .DLLs to the install folder didn't work. It DID look at them first but it actually prevented me from selecting "hardware acceleration" while they were there. And software mode still crashed.

The game's help file seems to mention this problem as a "you need to reinstall DirectX or update your video drivers" problem, so as I suspected it likely just doesn't understand the onboard video in my machine. I was hoping that somebody along the way had made some sort of source port type of thing for it but I'm not coming up with anything.

typh0id wrote on 2022-04-10, 13:47:

The game's help file seems to mention this problem as a "you need to reinstall DirectX or update your video drivers" problem, so as I suspected it likely just doesn't understand the onboard cvideo in my machine. I was hoping that somebody along the way had made some sort of source port type of thing for it but I'm not coming up with anything.

I was just about to say that. On new machines if I ran the game, a DX5 game, I would mostly get a Primary Surface Renderer card name faked by the OS. You are on Windows 98, the OS will directly deliver the chipset name and the supported features directly, so here HW acceleration goes out of question if it wasn't in the supported chipset section. And about SW acceleration if that doesn't work too, I suppose it's DirectX incompatibility again. Things are far better nowadays.

The only thing tripping me up about that assessment (because it was mine initially as well) is that the game runs fine on my XP machine that has a slightly newer video controller but is runnign the exact same version of DIrectX9. SO that would indicate that DirectX is not the issue. It has to be my video. But every other game that has disliked my video, I have been able to find a workaround.

I fully understand it may just not be possible but I was hoping...

A glide wrapper, but I don't know if theres one that will work for you on that setup. Thing is that game isn't really directx. It's direct3d 5 aka directx5. Most of that games features are probably Direct3d 3.

Only if DxWnd supported Win9X probably there was a rising Sun. The only thing I can now think of is some tool that fakes HW information

Warlord wrote on 2022-04-10, 17:55:

A glide wrapper, but I don't know if theres one that will work for you on that setup. Thing is that game isn't really directx. It's direct3d 5 aka directx5. Most of that games features are probably Direct3d 3.

Tried nGLide but it didn't fix the issue. It actually just messed up some of my other games' ability to use Direct3D until I uninstalled it. I'm not sure if a Glide wrapper will do the trick though. As far as I can tell, TM2 is a Direct3D game.

Hi. I am having similar problem on my win98se pc with this game. Menu is ok, when I start the game it's all black forever, when I press spacebar then, it quits to desktop without any error as if nothing happened.

I was wondering if it is possible to run the game directly in windowed mode instead of fullscreen?