VOGONS


First post, by LOLZpersonok

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I pulled one of my older machines (a Dell Optiplex GX240, desktop profile) out of storage and started getting some of my older period-correct games from the late 90s and early 2000s installed. I discovered a problem though - many of them don't launch. Some do, namely older games like Zuma Deluxe, Driver, and Diablo, but newer games like Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2, Need for Speed: Underground, and Shrek 2 don't launch. They crash before anything can really happen. Splash screens may show up or the screen may briefly turn black, but then it immediately crashes to the desktop which may or may not be accompanied by an error sound, and is never accompanied by an error message.

I've already made sure that all drivers are up to date, and I ensured that I have a better video driver from ATI installed rather than the Microsoft-authored ATI driver. I thought it had something to do with DirectX not being new enough, so I installed DirectX 9c (regardless of whether or not my GPU actually supports it - I'm still not clear on that), but that hasn't changed anything. I've even installed the Unofficial Windows XP Service Pack 4, but that made no difference. DxDiag seems to have issues too - the Direct3D and DirectDraw tests worked fine, but DxDiag will crash if DirectInput is not bypassed.

I thought I'd check the Event Viewer to see if that would give me any information. The events for the DirectInput-related crash in DxDiag are pretty clear on what's going on:

Faulting application dxdiag.exe, version 5.3.2600.5512, faulting module dinput8.dll, version 5.3.2600.5512, fault address 0x00168be

I'm not totally sure which component it's from, but I suspect an issue with my DirectX installation. I need confirmation or clarification for this point.

The other errors for the game crashes are the same, regardless of game - and they're rather unclear:

The description for Event ID ( 0 ) in Source ( ) cannot be found. The local computer may not have the necessary registry information or message DLL files to display messages from a remote computer. You may be able to use the /AUXSOURCE= flag to retrieve this description; see Help and Support for details. The following information is a part of the event: 6 (or 7). 

I'm not sure what this means, but it seems to me that it might not even be able to show me any easy to understand description of the problem, which would force me to have to decipher the hex information to even attempt to figure out what's going on, and that's something I don't posses any amount of knowledge or skill for doing.

The only rhyme or reason I can see in this is that older games work fine, and newer ones don't. The system in question does have a fairly anemic graphics card, particularly for the newer games. It is an ATI Rage 128 Ultra with 16MB of video memory, but even still it does meet the minimum requirements for Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2, even if that doesn't result in a good experience. Even though some of the games obviously won't run well on that card, they should at least run to some degree, rather than crash before anything really even happens.

The full system specifications:
A Pentium 4 clocked at 1.7GHz and Socket 478 (unsure of exact model)
512MB of PC133 SDRAM
The aforementioned ATI Rage 128 Ultra with 16MB of video memory, AGP, with the ATI supplied driver
Intel 845 chipset
Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 3 + Unofficial Service Pack 4

I can't really understand what's going on and why these games don't launch. I do mean to install a better GPU at some point, and I suppose the current card could be the issue, but I'd like some input from the community first.

Reply 1 of 8, by LOLZpersonok

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I resolved the issue. I got another, much more powerful computer (A Shuttle XPC) with a Windows XP installation as well, and began installing my games on that one. I then noticed that I was having the exact issue as the Dell Optiplex - newer games wouldn't run and DxDiag crashed with a DirectInput related error. What was the common factor between the two systems? My keyboard and mouse.

As per suggestion here, I tried unplugging my USB devices, starting with my USB keyboard. Almost shockingly, DxDiag stopped crashing, and those newer games began launching as they should. Turns out my keyboard was causing issues with DirectInput (dinput8.dll) loading, which resulted in game crashes in games that made use of DirectInput before they launched and issues with DxDiag. The keyboard in question is a much newer USB keyboard using a Winbond Electronics chipset. So, moral of the story - if you're having DirectInput-related issues, check your keyboard and mouse or other input devices.

Reply 2 of 8, by Duffman

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Happy to hear you've solved it!

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OSs: Win 11 Pro (NVMe) + WinXP Pro SP3 (SATA)
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Reply 3 of 8, by DosFreak

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I remember old posts about SDL and keyboard and the keyboards using an odd driver instead of the standard MS driver, might be the same here.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Make your games work offline

Reply 5 of 8, by dormcat

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Glad to hear that you've found and solved the problem. Personally I'd rather not use an USB keyboard on a Win9x or earlier build, but it really surprised me that even a WinXP build/game would encounter this type of problem.

Reply 6 of 8, by LOLZpersonok

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dormcat wrote on 2022-10-25, 17:01:

Glad to hear that you've found and solved the problem. Personally I'd rather not use an USB keyboard on a Win9x or earlier build, but it really surprised me that even a WinXP build/game would encounter this type of problem.

I wouldn't be surprised if this keyboard has issues with Windows 9x systems if it even works at all. I noted similar issues on Windows 2000 when using this particular keyboard that carried over to Windows XP. I thought at first that it was simply the Dell Optiplex that was slightly flaky and so I never thought to check the keyboard. I'm using a standard PS/2 KeyTronic keyboard now (definitely not as nice to use as the USB keyboard in question, which is a barebones FL-CMMK MK870 board with Winbond chipset that I customized), but it works better for sure. I should probably try other custom keyboards as well as some of the other standard USB ones that I have lying around to see if it's just isolated to this one Winbond board or if there are other issues with newer keyboards. The issue also exists even if DirectX 9c is installed, still with dinput8.dll errors.

Reply 7 of 8, by LOLZpersonok

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Jura Tastatura wrote on 2022-10-25, 16:54:

Wow, I've been in the IT business for more than 20 years now and would probably never cross my mind to unplug the damn keyboard. 😁

I wouldn't have guessed either, even with DirectInput-related issues. I figured it was something a lot deeper and more severe than just a slightly incompatible keyboard, until I saw that help page on Microsoft's support site - after I got a different computer. While using my Optiplex, I initially assumed the machine was slightly flaky, but then it carried over to the Shuttle XPC where I then thought it had to do with my Windows XP installation, which was done from the same media I used on the Optiplex. I guess the Microsoft-authored USB keyboard driver isn't quite right for the Winbond chipset in the keyboard.

Reply 8 of 8, by LOLZpersonok

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DosFreak wrote on 2022-10-25, 15:14:

I remember old posts about SDL and keyboard and the keyboards using an odd driver instead of the standard MS driver, might be the same here.

That could be something worth checking out. I think Microsoft's USB keyboard driver isn't quite right for the Windbond chipset in this board because the keyboard otherwise works fine (even in both my Shuttle's Phoenix BIOS and my Dell's BIOS), besides preventing dinput8.dll from functioning correctly. The keyboard is quite new so I kind of doubt there's an official Windows XP driver. I did find one from Lenovo, but it's hard to say if it'll work for my particular keyboard without further digging.