MSDOS 6 or later? Just run MEMMAKER! 😉

Yeah, memmaker will probably fix the problem if you're not loading stuff into upper memory yourself.

I typically run my 486 with around 595K of free conventional memory with just about everything under the sun loaded - himem, emm386, a full network stack (ipx, tcp/ip, network drives), two remote control TSRs, mouse driver, unnecessary Creative TSRs, Mitsumi CD-ROM driver, mscdex, ansi, smartdrv, share, doskey, dpms, etc.

For what I use it for that seems to be plenty but I can pretty easily get it to 610K free by disabling the remote control TSRs, and probably somewhat higher by adjusting the files/stacks/buffers/etc settings in config.sys.

Forgot to mention, but I am using Windows 98 DOS Mode (DOS 7.1 I believe)

Not sure why, but Memmaker does not seem to be very effective with my configuration...

Here is what memory looks like after Memmaker:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1Modules using memory below 1 MB:
2
3  Name           Total           Conventional       Upper Memory
4  --------  ----------------   ----------------   ----------------
5  SYSTEM      25,680   (25K)     13,792   (13K)     11,888   (12K)
6  HIMEM       34,128   (33K)     34,128   (33K)          0    (0K)
7  EMM386       3,120    (3K)      3,120    (3K)          0    (0K)
8  DBLBUFF      2,976    (3K)      2,976    (3K)          0    (0K)
9  ASPICD      12,752   (12K)     12,752   (12K)          0    (0K)
10  SETVER         832    (1K)        832    (1K)          0    (0K)
11  DOSKEY       4,688    (5K)      4,688    (5K)          0    (0K)
12  MSCDEX      15,936   (16K)     15,936   (16K)          0    (0K)
13  CTMOUSE      3,104    (3K)      3,104    (3K)          0    (0K)
14  KEYB         6,944    (7K)      6,944    (7K)          0    (0K)
15  ASPI7DOS    25,536   (25K)          0    (0K)     25,536   (25K)
16  DISPLAY      8,336    (8K)          0    (0K)      8,336    (8K)
17  IFSHLP       2,864    (3K)          0    (0K)      2,864    (3K)
18  COMMAND     10,064   (10K)          0    (0K)     10,064   (10K)
19  Free       591,104  (577K)    556,768  (544K)     34,336   (34K)
20
21Memory Summary:
22
23  Type of Memory       Total         Used          Free
24  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
25  Conventional          655,360        98,592       556,768
26  Upper                  93,024        58,688        34,336
27  Reserved              131,072       131,072             0
28  Extended (XMS)*    36,869,280       562,336    36,306,944
29  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
30  Total memory       37,748,736       850,688    36,898,048
31
32  Total under 1 MB      748,384       157,280       591,104
33
34  Total Expanded (EMS)                 33,947,648    (32M)
35  Free Expanded (EMS)*                 33,521,664    (32M)
36
37  * EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
38    Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.
39
40  Largest executable program size         555,968   (543K)
41  Largest free upper memory block          32,752    (32K)
42  MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't really understand why the rest of the programs are not being loaded into high memory, as they do have the Device High and LoadHigh tags... so I'm trying to find leaner drivers to see if it helps.

I can use QEMM and it will be able to push everything into high memory, but I want to also have a configuration with Himem and EMM386 for compatibility purposes.

Loading EMM386.EXE with NOEMS option (instead of RAM) will add 64 more kB UMB space. This should fix your problem.
If you need EMS, try menus in CONFIG.SYS

If you use disks > 8 GB, you may need this patched ASPI7DOS driver:
INT13 Extensions to Adaptec 274x EISA & 284x VLB

why the hell is HIMEM taking up 33kB??

Disruptor wrote on 2022-11-11, 13:28:

If you use disks > 8 GB, you may need this patched ASPI7DOS driver:
INT13 Extensions to Adaptec 274x EISA & 284x VLB

My discs are under 8GB at the time, but this is a good tip. Thanks

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-11-11, 15:17:

why the hell is HIMEM taking up 33kB??

That's what I would like to know 😁 ... I'm using the standard Himem.sys that comes with WIn98SE...

Just by changing the order in which the programs are loaded in autoexec.bat (and removing the useless specific memory sections added by memmaker) I have been able to move most of the programs to upper memory, and am now @587KB of conventional memory.

That is decent, if not great, but I am still puzzled about the 33Kb used by Himem.sys, as it seems too much.
How much is Himem.sys occupying in your configurations?

NightShadowPT wrote on 2022-11-11, 16:24:

My discs are under 8GB at the time, but this is a good tip. Thanks […]
Show full quote

Disruptor wrote on 2022-11-11, 13:28:

If you use disks > 8 GB, you may need this patched ASPI7DOS driver:
INT13 Extensions to Adaptec 274x EISA & 284x VLB

My discs are under 8GB at the time, but this is a good tip. Thanks

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-11-11, 15:17:

why the hell is HIMEM taking up 33kB??

That's what I would like to know 😁 ... I'm using the standard Himem.sys that comes with WIn98SE...

Just by changing the order in which the programs are loaded in autoexec.bat (and removing the useless specific memory sections added by memmaker) I have been able to move most of the programs to upper memory, and am now @587KB of conventional memory.

That is decent, if not great, but I am still puzzled about the 33Kb used by Himem.sys, as it seems too much.
How much is Himem.sys occupying in your configurations?

Does your config.sys start with dos=high,umb ?

Mind sharing your config.sys and autoexe.bat ?

darry wrote on 2022-11-11, 16:35:

Mind sharing your config.sys and autoexe.bat ?

Not at all, here they are:

1CONFIG.SYS
2
3DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS /EISA /TESTMEM:OFF
4DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF X=DC00-DFFF X=C700-C7FF
5DOS=HIGH,UMB
6BUFFERS=12,0
7FILES=30
8LASTDRIVE=Z
9FCBS=16,0
10DEVICEHIGH /L:2,41552 =C:\DRIVERS\SCSI\ASPI7DOS.SYS /D
11DEVICEHIGH /L:2,29632 =C:\DRIVERS\SCSI\ASPICD.SYS /D:ASPICD0
12Country=044,850,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\country.sys
13SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM C:\ /P
14DEVICEHIGH /L:2,16976 =C:\WINDOWS\SETVER.EXE
15DEVICEHIGH /L:2,17184 =C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
16DEVICEHIGH /L:1,3712 =C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS

1AUTOEXEC.BAT
2
3@Echo off
4PATH C:\PROGRAMS\QEMM;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\DOS;c:\tools\cc;c:\tools\pkzip;c:\tools\nc;c:\tools\maxdir
5SET PROMPT=$P$G
6SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
7SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D3 H7 P330 E620 T6
8LH /L:2,16016 doskey mcd=md $1$Tcd $1
9LH c:\drivers\mouse\ctmouse.exe
10mode con codepage prepare=((850) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ega.cpi) >nul
11mode con codepage select=850 >nul
12lh keyb uk,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\keyboard.sys
13LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:ASPICD0 /M:12 /L:F /E
14SET CTCM=C:\drivers\SBAWE\CTCM
15SET SOUND=C:\drivers\SBAWE
16SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E MODE:0
17C:\drivers\SBAWE\CTCM\CTCM.EXE /Q
18C:\drivers\SBAWE\DIAGNOSE /S >nul
19C:\drivers\SBAWE\AWEUTIL /S  >nul
20C:\drivers\SBAWE\MIXERSET /P /Q

And this is what the memory looks like NOW with the above configuration files:

1Modules using memory below 1 MB:
2
3  Name           Total           Conventional       Upper Memory
4  --------  ----------------   ----------------   ----------------
5  SYSTEM      25,648   (25K)     13,760   (13K)     11,888   (12K)
6  HIMEM       34,128   (33K)     34,128   (33K)          0    (0K)
7  EMM386       3,120    (3K)      3,120    (3K)          0    (0K)
8  DBLBUFF      2,976    (3K)      2,976    (3K)          0    (0K)
9  IFSHLP       2,864    (3K)          0    (0K)      2,864    (3K)
10  COMMAND     10,064   (10K)          0    (0K)     10,064   (10K)
11  ASPI7DOS    25,536   (25K)          0    (0K)     25,536   (25K)
12  ASPICD      12,784   (12K)          0    (0K)     12,784   (12K)
13  SETVER         864    (1K)          0    (0K)        864    (1K)
14  DISPLAY      8,336    (8K)          0    (0K)      8,336    (8K)
15  DOSKEY       4,688    (5K)          0    (0K)      4,688    (5K)
16  CTMOUSE      3,104    (3K)          0    (0K)      3,104    (3K)
17  KEYB         6,944    (7K)          0    (0K)      6,944    (7K)
18  MSCDEX      15,936   (16K)          0    (0K)     15,936   (16K)
19  Free       623,792  (609K)    601,024  (587K)     22,768   (22K)
20
21Memory Summary:
22
23  Type of Memory       Total         Used          Free
24  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
25  Conventional          655,360        54,336       601,024
26  Upper                 125,776       103,008        22,768
27  Reserved              131,072       131,072             0
28  Extended (XMS)*    36,836,528       562,352    36,274,176
29  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
30  Total memory       37,748,736       850,768    36,897,968
31
32  Total under 1 MB      781,136       157,344       623,792
33
34  Total Expanded (EMS)                 33,947,648    (32M)
35  Free Expanded (EMS)*                 33,521,664    (32M)
36
37  * EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
38    Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.
39
40  Largest executable program size         601,008   (587K)
41  Largest free upper memory block           9,920    (10K)
42  MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

NightShadowPT wrote on 2022-11-11, 16:24:

My discs are under 8GB at the time, but this is a good tip. Thanks […]
Show full quote

Disruptor wrote on 2022-11-11, 13:28:

If you use disks > 8 GB, you may need this patched ASPI7DOS driver:
INT13 Extensions to Adaptec 274x EISA & 284x VLB

My discs are under 8GB at the time, but this is a good tip. Thanks

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-11-11, 15:17:

why the hell is HIMEM taking up 33kB??

That's what I would like to know 😁 ... I'm using the standard Himem.sys that comes with WIn98SE...

Just by changing the order in which the programs are loaded in autoexec.bat (and removing the useless specific memory sections added by memmaker) I have been able to move most of the programs to upper memory, and am now @587KB of conventional memory.

That is decent, if not great, but I am still puzzled about the 33Kb used by Himem.sys, as it seems too much.
How much is Himem.sys occupying in your configurations?

This is PC-DOS 7

Your Himem.sys is occupying only 1K? Wow...

Is that Himem compatible with MS-DOS 7.1?

NightShadowPT wrote on 2022-11-11, 18:01:

Your Himem.sys is occupying only 1K? Wow...

Is that Himem compatible with MS-DOS 7.1?

Actually, the fact that yours is taking up 33k is highly suspect.
I just booted the win98 dos and its himem only takes up 1k.
and without loading dos high, it takes up just 4k of conventional memory.

This is the memory usage of my 486DXf-100 if its of any interest - running DOS 6.22

1Modules using memory below 1 MB:
2
3  Name           Total       =   Conventional   +   Upper Memory
4  --------  ----------------   ----------------   ----------------
5  MSDOS       19,021   (19K)     19,021   (19K)          0    (0K)
6  HIMEM        1,168    (1K)      1,168    (1K)          0    (0K)
7  EMM386       3,120    (3K)      3,120    (3K)          0    (0K)
8  DPMS         1,808    (2K)      1,808    (2K)          0    (0K)	Needed by PHOST (otherwise PHOST uses a lot more memory)
9  IFSHLP       3,872    (4K)      3,872    (4K)          0    (0K)
10  COMMAND      3,184    (3K)      3,184    (3K)          0    (0K)
11  CTMOUSE      3,104    (3K)      3,104    (3K)          0    (0K)	Mouse driver
12  PHOST       10,256   (10K)     10,256   (10K)          0    (0K)	Remote control thing. Can't load high, supports windows, IPX only.
13  SETVER         512    (1K)          0    (0K)        512    (1K)	Not sure why I've got this actually
14  VIBRA16     21,536   (21K)          0    (0K)     21,536   (21K)	Creative garbage
15  CTMMSYS      8,112    (8K)          0    (0K)      8,112    (8K)	Creative garbage. I assume I could drop one or both of these if needed
16  MTMCDAI     11,264   (11K)          0    (0K)     11,264   (11K)	Mitsumi CD-ROM driver
17  ANSI         4,240    (4K)          0    (0K)      4,240    (4K)
18  SMARTDRV    29,024   (28K)          0    (0K)     29,024   (28K)
19  DOSKEY       4,144    (4K)          0    (0K)      4,144    (4K)
20  MSCDEX      27,952   (27K)          0    (0K)     27,952   (27K)
21  SHARE       13,888   (14K)          0    (0K)     13,888   (14K)	Needed by C++ or pascal compiler IIRC. Could go if needed.
22  Client32     3,504    (3K)          0    (0K)      3,504    (3K)	Whole network stack (NIC driver, IPX, TCP/IP, DHCP client & network drives)
23  TINYH_N     34,144   (33K)          0    (0K)     34,144   (33K)	Different remote control thing - supports TCP but not windows
24  Free       609,840  (596K)    609,520  (595K)        320    (0K)
25
26Memory Summary:
27
28  Type of Memory       Total   =    Used    +    Free
29  ----------------  ----------   ----------   ----------
30  Conventional         655,360       45,840      609,520
31  Upper                158,640      158,320          320
32  Reserved             393,216      393,216            0
33  Extended (XMS)    32,347,216    8,916,048   23,431,168	Most of the XMS usage is the network stack - cache is currently set to 4MB.
34  ----------------  ----------   ----------   ----------
35  Total memory      33,554,432    9,513,424   24,041,008
36
37  Total under 1 MB     814,000      204,160      609,840
38
39  Largest executable program size        608,880   (595K)
40  Largest free upper memory block            192     (0K)
41  MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

Are you sure that /EISA switch should be on himem.sys? Are you running this on a machine with EISA slots?

I thought it is well known that there has been a buggy version of HIMEM.SYS in a Windows 95 or 98 release that consumes too much conventional memory.
Try another HIMEM.SYS please.

davidrg wrote on 2022-11-11, 20:44:

Are you sure that /EISA switch should be on himem.sys? Are you running this on a machine with EISA slots?

Yes, my sistem is EISA (It's a Compaq Deskpro 486/66M).

Disruptor wrote on 2022-11-11, 20:57:

I thought it is well known that there has been a buggy version of HIMEM.SYS in a Windows 95 or 98 release that consumes too much conventional memory.
Try another HIMEM.SYS please.

That seems to be the problem.
Just tried another HIMEM.SYS from a Windows 95 boot disk and now Himem is taking only 1K... Super!

Total free conventional memory is now 619K!

It's always funny to see how I started with a problem statement that ended up not being the solution at all 😁
Thanks everyone for the support

NightShadowPT wrote on 2022-11-10, 20:45:

As many of you I am going through the struggle of getting the most out of my MS-DOS memory, but due to a SCSI Controller (Adapte […]
Show full quote

As many of you I am going through the struggle of getting the most out of my MS-DOS memory, but due to a SCSI Controller (Adaptec) I am using 2 drivers that are killing my memory:

ASPI7DOS.SYS - Is taking 25Kb of memory
ASPICD.SYS - Is taking an additional 12Kb

And this is before I load MSCDEX that is taking me 16Kb

Are there any alternatives that are less memory hungry?

In terms of alternatives:
- For ASPI7DOS.SYS, perhaps if you look around you can find an older or newer version of that driver from Adaptec that happens to use less RAM, but I think it's probably unlikely you'll be able to find anything useful. I'm not aware of any third-party drivers you can use instead because this driver needs to support your specific SCSI controller.
- For ASPICD.SYS, you can probably use a different driver because this should be talking to ASPI7DOS.SYS via a standard ASPI interface. Most DOS SCSI drivers will come with such a driver, for example here are some other filenames which might help you find alternatives, although I don't have any idea about their memory consumption: AMD PCscsi: amsicd.sys; Symbios/LSI/NCR: symcd.sys; Tekram: trmcd.sys.

Hey just had the same and tested a few scsi cdrom drivers.
My card is a AHA-1542B PNP

Adaptec ASPI 4.01 aspicd.sys 12736 Bytes
Dawicontrol DC226U Ver 1.50 aspicd.exe 10736Bytes
BusLogic 3.30C btcdrom.sys 17360Bytes
Dawicontrol DC3X5U Ver 1.92 trmcd.sys 17152Bytes

Several others did not detect my drive.

So the aspicd.exe needs 2KB less than the official driver and on top of that my CD-Drive is not recognised and it sets it as an generic sony drive.