VOGONS


First post, by doshea

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From time to time there are posts asking about whether anyone can find a particular piece of old software given its name and perhaps its developer. Sometimes there are even harder questions about whether there is any software utility for older operating systems which has a particular set of features. Sometimes we have some answers, but other times we only have some hints, or perhaps know of something related which might not be the best option. I have some ways to try to find software myself, but it's time-consuming and I'd prefer to just write up some hints about how I do it which others can hopefully follow, rather than do the work for them. Does anyone know of any existing guides for this kind of thing?

Here are my techniques for finding software if I know what it is called, or perhaps if I have some very specific keywords like it's for dealing with files in a specific, rare, named file format. I find these more useful than general web searches because they will often pick up some modern software with the same name or feature. The intent here is to find freeware, shareware or open source tools. Commercial software wouldn't appear in most of these searches.

- Google search with "site:cd.textfiles.com" in the search keywords, which effectively limits the search to old shovelware CDs
- Search on http://discmaster.textfiles.com
- Search on https://archive.org, and possibly once search results are returned limit the results to "Media Type:" "software" or similar.
- Search in the PC-SIG Library: https://archive.org/details/PC-Sig_Library_13 … ion_PC-SIG_1994 seems to be the latest release that is available although according to Wikipedia there was a 14th edition. It has a catalog and also has the software. There are numerous older releases available on the same site, and also some more restricted games and utilities CD-ROMs.
- Search in the PC-SIG Encyclopedia of Shareware, which was a physical book: https://archive.org/details/pcsigencyclopedi0 … e_k3k1/mode/2up seems to be the latest release that is available online but I know there was a 4th edition. There are also older editions available on archive.org. Hopefully there isn't anything in here which isn't also in the PC-SIG Library CD-ROM though, except in cases where they deleted some entries from their catalog. Finding something here which wasn't on the CD-ROMs would be pretty disappointing because you've only found evidence that the software existed, but not found the software itself.

This is how I find software which performs a particular function based on some more vague keywords like "windows api trace":

- books.google.com search with intitle:"PC Mag" in the search keywords (this gives results from PC Magazine - I'm not sure why the titles all seem to say "PC Mag"), then before clicking through to the results, try to focus on results from issues in relevant years, e.g. early to mid 1990s for Windows 3.x things. Alternatively use https://books.google.com/advanced_book_search, put "PC Mag" (with the quotes) in the "Title" field, use the "Publication Date" control to narrow the search range, and put some keywords in the fields at the top. This will of course only give you the names and versions of software to find.
- Go to cd.textfiles.com (or alternatively have your own local copies of shovelware CDs) and take a look at the listings in popular collections like simtel, CICA, garbo, etc. It would be good to provide some hints as to which collections are good for what purposes. There are often multiple releases of each, so check some CD-ROMs which are from relevant years. Often there is a 00GLOBAL.TXT file with an index of everything in the (possibly multiple-CD) release, but these can be quite large and take a while to search if you have only vague keywords. It can be useful to try to find a category-specific directory - e.g. http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/simtel20/MSDOS/MENU/ - and then look at its 00_INDEX.TXT or similar file to narrow down your search. Some CD-ROMs just don't have text files listing the directory contents, though, and aren't very useful for searching in this way.
- http://discmaster.textfiles.com as referenced above is able to search most or all of the CDs on cd.textfiles.com, but since it also searches inside .zip files you'll get a lot more matches, which can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how specific your search terms are.
- The PC-SIG Library/Encyclopedia are again useful here for searching and/or reading categorised listings of software.

It would be great if someone (maybe http://discmaster.textfiles.com) did a better job of indexing old shareware/freeware utilities by extracting the FILE_ID.DIZ files from them and indexing them. Maybe this wouldn't work as well as I hope for though.

Reply 2 of 15, by doshea

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I now know how to decode the WordCruncher files used in the PC-SIG Library CDs:

|N0001 #1 GAMES SERIES #1 DISK-NUMBER: 0001 DISK-TITLE: GAMES SERIES #1 PC-SIG VERSION: S2.0 PROGRAM TITLE: GAME SERIES 1 […]
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|N0001 #1 GAMES SERIES #1

DISK-NUMBER: 0001
DISK-TITLE: GAMES SERIES #1
PC-SIG VERSION: S2.0
PROGRAM TITLE: GAME SERIES 1
AUTHOR VERSION: 2.0
PROGRAM CATEGORY: ENTERTAINMENT/GAMES

Suggested Registration:
None.

Special Requirements:
BASIC, BASICA or GWBASIC.

|P1 This disk contains many of the original basic games for the IBM PC.
Many of these games seem primitive when compared with more recent
programs, but they may be of interest to those who'd like to see where
we've been.

There are 34 games on this disk, which are listed as follows:

ARCHIE, BLACKJCK, BREAKOUT, CANNON, CATCH88, CHESS1, CRAPS, CRASHER,
DEFEND, ELIZA, FENCE, GOBBLE, HANGMAN, JAMMER, JBREAK, LANDER, LUNAR,
MASTMIND, MAXIT, METEOR, MOON, NIM, OPERATOR, OTHELLO, PATHMAN, PCMAN,
PONGPONG, STARLANE, SURVIVAL, TICTACTO, WOMBATS, WORM1, WUMPUS, and
YAHTZEE.

████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
...
████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
|N4313 #4313 DOOM 4 OF 4 (3526, 3527, 4310)

DISK-NUMBER: 4313
DISK-TITLE: DOOM 4 OF 4 (3526, 3527, 4310)
PC-SIG VERSION: S1.1
PROGRAM TITLE: DOOM - EPISODE ONE: KNEE DEEP IN THE DEAD

████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████

(yes, DOOM is really the last entry in this, the 13th edition, although two of the disks have much lower disk numbers; the last complete disk set is Duke Nukem II)

It looks like this could be parsed to make a searchable online database if anyone is so inclined. I would like to do that, but I'd like to finish some things I started before I start on a new project.

I think the PC-SIG library is good because it's clearly a snapshot of the past (the oldest files in the disk 1 .ZIP file are from 1982) and I assume a little quality control has gone into the listings - presumably they deleted software they got complaints about, possibly checked the descriptions from the authors before just copy-and-pasting them, etc. I'm sure it's just a small snapshot of what software was available though.

Reply 3 of 15, by jnemo2004

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Good morning,
I have found many interesting IBM files in old IBM's ftp server but none of them is currently available.
Do you know if those files have been moved to another servers?
Thank you very much.
For instance: DOS Utilities (ftp.pc.ibm.com/pub/pccbbs/dos_util)

Reply 4 of 15, by doshea

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jnemo2004 wrote on 2023-05-02, 06:50:
Good morning, I have found many interesting IBM files in old IBM's ftp server but none of them is currently available. Do you kn […]
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Good morning,
I have found many interesting IBM files in old IBM's ftp server but none of them is currently available.
Do you know if those files have been moved to another servers?
Thank you very much.
For instance: DOS Utilities (ftp.pc.ibm.com/pub/pccbbs/dos_util)

I just did a Google search for "pccbbs" and there seem to be a few mirrors. Here is one hosted by one of our forum members which I found by searching for '"Aron Eisenpress" ftp' (that name appeared on archive.org)
[edit by Dominus: removed link]

Last edited by Dominus on 2023-05-02, 08:07. Edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed link

Reply 5 of 15, by Dominus

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You are walking a thin line with this thread. We do not allow copyright infringements on Vogons and thus can barely tolerate archive.org (and that is sadly questionable from a legal view). Please do not post links to sites that host software that is not theirs to host.

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 6 of 15, by doshea

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Dominus wrote on 2023-05-02, 08:09:

You are walking a thin line with this thread. We do not allow copyright infringements on Vogons and thus can barely tolerate archive.org (and that is sadly questionable from a legal view). Please do not post links to sites that host software that is not theirs to host.

Sorry. I intended the thread to be about shareware/freeware/etc.:

doshea wrote on 2023-03-18, 03:36:

The intent here is to find freeware, shareware or open source tools.

- Google search with "site:cd.textfiles.com" in the search keywords, which effectively limits the search to old shovelware CDs

PC-SIG

simtel, CICA, garbo, etc.

I was tempted to suggest that jnemo2004's post was off-topic for this thread, but I didn't imagine that IBM was giving away non-free software on their public FTP site - it looked like it was more of the same sort of thing you'd find above, e.g. I saw drivers and programming examples from a quick look through the file listing. Are mirrors of formerly-public FTP sites considered to be infringing on copyright unless proven otherwise on a file-by-file basis? If something formerly being freely available for a long time doesn't make it seem okay to distribute now, then I'm not really clear why it is okay to post links to vogonsdrivers.com for example - has every file there been carefully curated to make sure it was documented as allowing redistribution? Apologies if this is explained somewhere; I did just check the "Terms of use" but it didn't help. I do appreciate that the rules are there for a good reason, I'm just not very clear on what they are. If it's just a grey area taken on a case-by-case basis, I will just try to get out of the habit of posting links to things.

Edit: Also, for the record, I found an archive of the IBM FTP site on the Internet Archive first, but refrained from linking to it given that I was already aware that it was frowned upon.

Reply 7 of 15, by Dominus

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I might have been too overeager with the link I removed 🤷‍♂️
But overall it’s a terrible grey area ;(

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 9 of 15, by doshea

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Dominus wrote on 2023-05-02, 09:18:

I might have been too overeager with the link I removed 🤷‍♂️
But overall it’s a terrible grey area ;(

That's understandable!

ldeveraux wrote on 2023-05-02, 14:03:

I've been looking for an old bit of MAC Hypercard software, is there a resource for that?

I don't know so much about Mac things, but I found some shovelware CDs when I was looking for old utilities once:

Roadside Resources - seems like it might mostly be Internet utilities; Google search for "site:cd.textfiles.com hypercard" seems to mostly reveal PC things described as "hypercard-like", so this probably isn't what you're looking for

"BMUG PD-ROM": I think there are a few releases of this hosted in various places, hopefully this might be more useful as I found some non-Internet (SCSI in fact) utilities on one of these

Reply 10 of 15, by elszgensa

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I'll just put it out there: If your problem is that you don't even know what to look for yet... Some of the "abandonware" sites have built really great catalogues around their content. It's everybody's own decision whether to click dat download button or not, but in any case they can be great for finding the correct search terms to use in, say, an eBay search, so even if you're 100% against piracy you can still get some good use out of them.

Reply 11 of 15, by ldeveraux

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doshea wrote on 2023-05-04, 08:23:
I don't know so much about Mac things, but I found some shovelware CDs when I was looking for old utilities once: […]
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ldeveraux wrote on 2023-05-02, 14:03:

I've been looking for an old bit of MAC Hypercard software, is there a resource for that?

I don't know so much about Mac things, but I found some shovelware CDs when I was looking for old utilities once:

Roadside Resources - seems like it might mostly be Internet utilities; Google search for "site:cd.textfiles.com hypercard" seems to mostly reveal PC things described as "hypercard-like", so this probably isn't what you're looking for

"BMUG PD-ROM": I think there are a few releases of this hosted in various places, hopefully this might be more useful as I found some non-Internet (SCSI in fact) utilities on one of these

Unfortunately it's not in there. It's not a 'piracy' thing it's a 'does this thing even exist any more' thing. I remember playing Name That Guitarist on an old MAC and literally just wanted to check it out again. I have no clue if it's abandonware, but the developer is still around. I suppose I could reach out to him about >30 year old software, but that's kind of a stretch you know?

Reply 12 of 15, by Dominus

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Abandonware is unfortunately not a legal term.

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 13 of 15, by konc

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ldeveraux wrote on 2023-05-05, 12:15:

I suppose I could reach out to him about >30 year old software, but that's kind of a stretch you know?

Not really, many of us have done exactly this with... interesting results both ways. Some have kindly provided software to people for personal use, some have even given permission to publicly share their creations, other have asked for crazy vintage-rare money to provide something that's going to get lost with them. So don't think it's something very weird, you might not even be the first to contact him.

Reply 14 of 15, by ldeveraux

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konc wrote on 2023-05-05, 13:11:
ldeveraux wrote on 2023-05-05, 12:15:

I suppose I could reach out to him about >30 year old software, but that's kind of a stretch you know?

Not really, many of us have done exactly this with... interesting results both ways. Some have kindly provided software to people for personal use, some have even given permission to publicly share their creations, other have asked for crazy vintage-rare money to provide something that's going to get lost with them. So don't think it's something very weird, you might not even be the first to contact him.

FWIW I reached out to him, not holding my breath on a reply. I've been able to find the stack and the resource file (both are freeware) but I wouldn't know the first thing about getting a 35 year old hypercard stack working on modern equipment. I have plenty of retro Windows computers, but not a single retro Mac.

Reply 15 of 15, by doshea

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ldeveraux wrote on 2023-05-06, 12:58:

FWIW I reached out to him, not holding my breath on a reply. I've been able to find the stack and the resource file (both are freeware) but I wouldn't know the first thing about getting a 35 year old hypercard stack working on modern equipment. I have plenty of retro Windows computers, but not a single retro Mac.

Cool! It sounds like it might be interesting, are you able to provide a link to it, or is it on an "abandonware" site?

As for how to run it, there's a whole "Macintosh Emulation" subforum on this site which should be able to help you out if you can't figure things out. In case it helps to find some pointers online, I've had success with Basilisk II and Mini vMac for various things, and maybe PCE/macplus too (I can't remember). Basilisk II seems to be for more recent/powerful 68k Macs than the other two.