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Weird issues with archiving software / Memory configuration issue?

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First post, by dura-zell

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Hi

I'm actually not 100% sure if I have a hardware issue or a configuration issue, but currently I think it's a software / configuration issue, so I'm posting here.

I'm currently trying to move some software to my new Retrocomputer.
My way to go would be to load achived files via network and unpack them to the local harddisk. For this I set up a small ftp server and use the ftp client from mTCP to load .7z files to the local harddisk. Unfortunately I have issues with unpacking these.

I'm using the 7z executable from 7-Zip Benchmark, DOS Edition here which should run on the machine. I also tried various versions of pkunzip et al I found on the net. All of these yield similar results:
When running the .exe, the computer either locks up, hanging with a blinking cursor, just freezes completely or simply reboots.

This happens when I start the computer normally, with all drivers loaded but also when the computer is started without any driver loaded (hit F8 on boot, press "n" on every question) or when started from a MS-DOS bootdisk. I tried numerous amounts of configurations in config.sys / autoexec.bat with no success.

Additionally I tried a memorytest to rule out a bad memorystick.
- Checkit: immediatly reboots when the computer is started normally but runs fine when started with the bootdisk
- memtest86: runs fine and reports no issues

Now I'm a bit stumped and running out of ideas - hopefully someone here has an idea wheat & where else to check.

The machine itself:
- FIC PA-2002 with Pentium @133MHz
- 8 MB Memory
- ATI Rage II + Diamond Monster 3D
- Soundblaster AWE64
- SN2000 NIC
- 8 GB Harddisk

Following the systemfiles,mostly as memmaker wrote them with some minor tweaks

Config.sys:

DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
BUFFERS=11,0
FILES=30
DOS=UMB
LASTDRIVE=H
FCBS=4,0
DOS=HIGH
DEVICE=C:\DRIVERS\CTCM\CTCM.EXE
COUNTRY=049,850,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,15792 =C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
DEVICEHIGH /L:2,22928 =C:\DRIVERS\CDROM\D011V200.SYS /D:CDROM
DEVICEHIGH /L:2,32592 =C:\DRIVERS\SB16\DRV\CTSB16.SYS /UNIT=0 /BLASTER=A:220 I:5 D:1 H:5
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,10160 =C:\DRIVERS\SB16\DRV\CTMMSYS.SYS

Autoexec.bat:

@ECHO OFF
SET MTCPCFG=C:\DRIVERS\MTCP\MTCP.CFG
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\DOS;C:\DT;F:\SCRIPTS;C:\DRIVERS\MTCP
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP

LH /L:0;2,45456 /S C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
LH /L:2,27952 C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:CDROM
LH /L:1,6384 C:\DOS\DOSKEY.COM
LH /L:1,5472 C:\DRIVERS\PMOUSE\MOUSE.COM

SET SOUND=C:\DRIVERS\SB16
REM SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 E620 T6
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
SET CTCM=C:\DRIVERS\CTCM
C:\DRIVERS\SB16\DIAGNOSE /S
C:\DRIVERS\CTCM\CTCU /S
C:\DRIVERS\SB16\MIXERSET /P

MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((850) C:\DOS\EGA.CPI)
MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=850
LH /L:2,17120 KEYB GR,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS

I'm open for any idea why no archiver runs here. I can provide the files I tested with of course, or any other Info I might have forgotten.

Greetings,
Dura-Zell

Reply 1 of 7, by dura-zell

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Short update:
pkunzip 2.04 seems to work - at least its not crashing the computer. Anything newer will show the symptoms as described above. Still no idea why this is happening though.

Greetings, Dura

Reply 2 of 7, by doshea

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Since 7-Zip is so much newer, it is possible that it was compiled to expect particular CPU instructions which aren't available on your CPU - either intentionally or possibly due to a bug in the compiler - or if its CPU detection doesn't work properly with your CPU due to a bug. I think these are issues I've seen reported with other software, and I think it's the sort of thing that goes unnoticed since so few people are using newer software on older machines, and of those that do, there is quite a variety of different CPUs being used.

Reply 3 of 7, by konc

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Throwing in some ideas in random order:
.make sure FTP transfer type is binary
.virus scan (2 things running ok when booting from another media)
.try uncompressed file transfer to rule out compression/decompression issues
.boot clean (bare minimum to run ftp)

Reply 4 of 7, by dura-zell

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Hi

Thanks for the ideas.
I did manage to test some more - I suspect that there maybe something wrong with the Board and/or CPU.

doshea: I assumed that the executable from my link was specifically compiled to run on old computers. Additionally I tried several other things like tar, pkzip/pkunzip etc. Even older versions of the programs, so far only the above mentioned 2.04 of pkunzip runs. Although it looks like "archivers" are not my only problem - see below.

konc:
Most of these I already tried. FTP is binary - On the other side I'm using "WinSCP" but I also tried "by hand". I also tried to burn the software on CD ROM and copy it over. I'm using the ftp mostly for convenience and to save on disks. Uncompressed filetransfer is what I'm currently using as compressed is not working for me. I did some more tests and found more issues - see below.
For booting clean: I changed my approach a bit - now I'm running the ftp directly on the machine (ftpsrv from mtcp). When doing this I'm only loading network drivers and then directly start the ftp server - nothing else.

As mentioned above:
I had some time to work on this. I changed the memory to 2x16MB. (Board refuses to run with 1x16MB). I also tried with and without the Cachemodule.
Additionally I found some time to run a few games - so my "testsuite" looks like this:
- 7zip -> locks up
- pkunzip: anything newer than 2.04 -> locks up.
- Tombraider: - with and without 3dfx patch: locks up
- Doom: runs fine
- Duke Nukem 3D: locks up
- Dune 2: runs fine
- Win95 installs and runs fine

I'm not sure which software I can additionally use for testing (and also is freely available at least as demo). But: It looks that "newer" software seems to use things my CPU and/or Board can't fully provide but I'm not sure where to look.

regarding the viruscheck:
Its a clean install but I can check anyway - any recommendation for an AV scanner running on this old hardware?

Greetings,

Dura-Zell

Reply 5 of 7, by dura-zell

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Uhm - not sure if the preferred method to add information to a post is a new post or editing the existing one - for now I'm adding answers to existing posts. Please bear with me 😉
Anyway:
I swapped the ATI 3D Rage II for an Elsa Winner 1000 Trio and now everything works. I can use the 7zip executable and all programs mentioned above are running fine.
The question is now:
Are the any know issues with the ATI Cards (it's a Mach64 Chipset I believe) or is my Card faulty...?

greetings,
Dura-Zell

Reply 6 of 7, by CoffeeOne

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dura-zell wrote on 2023-04-17, 20:03:
Uhm - not sure if the preferred method to add information to a post is a new post or editing the existing one - for now I'm addi […]
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Uhm - not sure if the preferred method to add information to a post is a new post or editing the existing one - for now I'm adding answers to existing posts. Please bear with me 😉
Anyway:
I swapped the ATI 3D Rage II for an Elsa Winner 1000 Trio and now everything works. I can use the 7zip executable and all programs mentioned above are running fine.
The question is now:
Are the any know issues with the ATI Cards (it's a Mach64 Chipset I believe) or is my Card faulty...?

greetings,
Dura-Zell

Hello,
OK, so when it is now solved. Perfect!
It is funny that you do not even mention what you use, but it seems to be Windows 98. Or is it Windows 95?
With the information what you wrote before, I would say:
You seem to have a hardware problem. Pure DOS running fine, but Windows 98 is crashing / unstable. DOS is by far less demanding.
Since you have a problems to extract a zip file: This is a pure CPU task.
So either mainboard, cpu, cache or RAM do have a problem. Graphics card driver problem? Very unlikely, that will not affect unzipping.
By the way:
" I changed the memory to 2x16MB. (Board refuses to run with 1x16MB)"
Pentium mainboard need to have 64bit memory, so 72pin modules must be installed in pair always. That is obvious.

EDIT: Sorry, I now understood, that you use DOS 6.xx. because you used memmaker.
Still I guess the 7-zip dos version is a really good hardware test program.

But OK, maybe really the graphics card was faulty, then everything should be good now with the new graphics card.

Reply 7 of 7, by dura-zell

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Hi

I thought I mentioned that I'm trying to set up a DOS build. This was the reason for posting my config.sys and autoexec.bat in my initial post. Thus I also did not install any graphics drivers.
I tried to install Win95 (successfully) but it was only for testing. All other tests mentioned above were done with MS-DOS 6.22.

The issue is solved in that regard that another graphics card seems to work fine (although I'm not sure if the Winner is a good companion card for my voodoo 1 - time will show).
If time permits I will test the ATI card in another system, I have a PIII@500 with a fitting Mainboard lying around which I can use for this) - still I would like to know if there are known issues with the Rage II cards and MS-DOS. The card itself seemed to be more or less period correct to me but this was also a time of change and I can imagine that the ATI card might not be fully DOS compatible.

greetings,
Dura-Zell

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