NoGoodNamesLeft wrote on 2023-08-30, 16:43:

Im trying to setup my win 98se pc to play dos games and before I would get an error saying EMM wasn't setup or something like that. So I did some reading here and found QEMM 97. When I install it though it only shows 256 megs of RAM when I have 700+. If I click on my computer and do properties it shows my pc as only have 256 megs of ram. if I remove QEMM 97 my pc shows all the memory, if I do a memory test all my memory shows.

Is this normal? I know win98 doesn't show over blah blah blah without some patches.

Hello.

It is a limitation of QEMM 97, which can address up to 256MB RAM. With EMM386, that doesn't happen.

I'm surprised that QEMM supports such a huge amount of RAM, at all.
When QEMM was new, average PCs had 4 to 16 MB of RAM (power user systems had more than that). Himem.sys of MS-DOS 6.x had a 64 MB limit, even, at that time.

Speaking of 64 MB limit of old Himem.sys, some EMS aware programs don't expect to see more than 32 MB of EMS.
If they do, they may see negative numbers.

EMS LIM4 specs topped out at 32 MB, similar to how XMS 2.x specs topped out at 64 MB.
Some applications can handle more than that, but it's okay if they fail.

That being said, there's an alternative to using QEMM.
Helix Multimedia Cloaking can replace drivers (mouse, mscdex, smartdrv) by special ones.
They natively run past 1 MB barrier, so they don't need to be loaded high into UMBs.
All they leave behind is a small ~2KB stub in conventional memory.

Which means that Himem.sys and EMM386 can be left in charge.

(Edit: DOS 7.x Himem.sys supports XMS v3, it likely also uses the reverse order of adressing memory opposed to its predecessor,
which might be relevant for cache configuration; cacheable area etc. )

It's not as efficient as using QEMM, maybe, but it saves about 32 to 70 KB of conventional memory.

- Normal MSCDEX uses 32 KB, unless /E parameter is set. Then it uses EMS and merely needs 15 KB.
- Late MS Mouse driver needs 10 to 14 KB.
- Ordinary SmartDrive (also used by MSCDEX for caching) uses 28 KB.

You don't need QEMM for EMS under 98 SE. QEMM is quite aggressive by default, and without basic understanding of what you are doing it will do you more harm than good.

Are you trying to run your DOS game under Windows or do you start/restart the PC and go to MS-DOS mode? If you're launching it under Windows, then the first step is to check, whether Windows managed to allocate the EMS page frame. You can do it by right-clicking the executable and checking in the memory tab whether it has the option to enable EMS. If Windows has problem enabling it, then you should start diagnosing why it happened.

Can you explain what exactly are you trying to do, what game do you want to run, and what motherboard/chipset are you using?

thank you for the answers everyone appreciate it...

GL1zdA - That makes perfect sense about QEMM I had no clue what I was doing and could see my pc struggling the more I tinkered with it 🤣

I'm trying to just launch DOS games under Windows. I checked the executable and the memory tab where EMS is its enabled and says "AUTO", in fact that whole tab says AUTO, Conventional memory, EMS, XMS,DPMI memory all enabled and put to "AUTO" XMS also has the check box checked for "uses HMA".

I'm trying to use HIMEMX and EMM386.exe right now instead of QEMM. In my Config.sys file I have the following lines

1DOS=HIGH,UMB,AUTO
2DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\START\HIMEMX.EXE /MAX=2097152
3DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\EMMS386.EXE NOEMS

Mobo+ chipset - Asus P2B-F with 1014 003 Bios + Celeron 500 with Intel 440BX (Seattle) chipset

NoGoodNamesLeft wrote on 2023-08-30, 20:49:

I'm trying to just launch DOS games under Windows. I checked the executable and the memory tab where EMS is its enabled and says "AUTO", in fact that whole tab says AUTO, Conventional memory, EMS, XMS,DPMI memory all enabled and put to "AUTO" XMS also has the check box checked for "uses HMA".

AFAIK, memory related entries in config.sys have no bearing on DOS games running inside Windows.

Each DOS instance under windows uses its own settings, as you discovered in the memory tab.

I think the same. All Windows 9x really needs is Himem.sys, to access Extended Memory.
Windows 9x has the equivalent of EMM386 built-in. In fact, the very heart of Windows 98 is the Virtual Machine Monitor (VMM).
The whole OS is like a big memory manager, built on a pile of i386 drivers (VXDs).

The only exception is if UMB is desired, otherwise don't mess with EMM when running a Windows 9x environment as intended.

If problem arises with certain DOS applications, create a PIF shortcut with custom CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT settings. This is the most beginner-friendly way to get around this.

Okay, P2B with Windows 9x should be fine by default. The thing you might need is more conventional memory and this can be done by enabling UMB and letting some DOS stuff into UMB. You can do it by using EMM386, but on the P2B UMBPCI should run fine and wont’t force you into protected mode at every boot:

https://www.uwe-sieber.de/umbpci_e.html

Put UMBPCI.SYS into C:\UMBPCI and start with a really simple CONFIG.SYS:

DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\UMBPCI\UMBPCI.SYS

After you do it open the dos command promot check available memory with „mem /c /p”, you can copy the output and post it in this thread.

With EMM386 NOEMS you will disable EMS everywhere. There’s also not reason to use HIMEMX.