MGL is a multi-platform graphics library while WinDirect is a technology to get direct access to VGA and VESA video modes in Windows, in particular non-NT based ones.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-29, 15:58:

MGL is a multi-platform graphics library while WinDirect is a technology to get direct access to VGA and VESA video modes in Windows, in particular non-NT based ones.

VGA, you mean VGA modes using VESA specs? Or some BIOS-sent direct VGA?

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-09-29, 18:41:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-29, 15:58:

MGL is a multi-platform graphics library while WinDirect is a technology to get direct access to VGA and VESA video modes in Windows, in particular non-NT based ones.

VGA, you mean VGA modes using VESA specs? Or some BIOS-sent direct VGA?

BIOS-sent direct VGA using plain mode 13h. WinDirect also supports VGA mode X (VGAX.DRV) as well but it is disabled in WinQuake-based games.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-29, 19:58:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-09-29, 18:41:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-29, 15:58:

MGL is a multi-platform graphics library while WinDirect is a technology to get direct access to VGA and VESA video modes in Windows, in particular non-NT based ones.

VGA, you mean VGA modes using VESA specs? Or some BIOS-sent direct VGA?

BIOS-sent direct VGA using plain mode 13h. WinDirect also supports VGA mode X (VGAX.DRV) as well but it is disabled in WinQuake-based games.

In layman terms it's just DOS graphics accessibility for Windows?

Let me guess, the VGA color palette isn't a necessarily a part of WinDirect, and that it could be used anywhere in non-NT without it?

(Related to Hexen 2 thread: how do you run GTA in WinDirect modes though?)

Edit: lament -> layman

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-09-30, 02:56:

In lament terms it's just DOS graphics accessibility for Windows?

In layman terms, yes.

Let me guess, the VGA color palette isn't a necessarily a part of WinDirect, and that it could be used anywhere in non-NT without it?

The VGA color palette isn't a part of WinDirect at all, the registers weren't entirely virtualized.

However, Windows in 8-bit color mode changes the color palette depending on the current application.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-30, 03:24:

Let me guess, the VGA color palette isn't a necessarily a part of WinDirect, and that it could be used anywhere in non-NT without it?

The VGA color palette isn't a part of WinDirect at all, the registers weren't entirely virtualized.

However, Windows in 8-bit color mode changes the color palette depending on the current application.

More specifically, I was talking about this type of palette:
https://sourceforge.net/p/dxwnd/discussion/ge … e33e812d4/#bbf7

A one-to-one DirectX -> hardware palette

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-09-30, 05:46:

More specifically, I was talking about this type of palette: https://sourceforge.net/p/dxwnd/discussion/ge … e33e812d4/#bbf7 […]
Show full quote

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-30, 03:24:

Let me guess, the VGA color palette isn't a necessarily a part of WinDirect, and that it could be used anywhere in non-NT without it?

The VGA color palette isn't a part of WinDirect at all, the registers weren't entirely virtualized.

However, Windows in 8-bit color mode changes the color palette depending on the current application.

More specifically, I was talking about this type of palette:
https://sourceforge.net/p/dxwnd/discussion/ge … e33e812d4/#bbf7

A one-to-one DirectX -> hardware palette

Yes, something like that. Those hacks are what enabled WinDirect.

Fun fact: Some older non-NT Windows video card drivers called a VESA video mode thru int 10h when changing screen resolutions by normal means. Not related to the VGA color palette, but it was more about having access to the registers where it shouldn't.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-30, 13:17:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-09-30, 05:46:

More specifically, I was talking about this type of palette: https://sourceforge.net/p/dxwnd/discussion/ge … e33e812d4/#bbf7 […]
Show full quote

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-30, 03:24:

The VGA color palette isn't a part of WinDirect at all, the registers weren't entirely virtualized.

However, Windows in 8-bit color mode changes the color palette depending on the current application.

More specifically, I was talking about this type of palette:
https://sourceforge.net/p/dxwnd/discussion/ge … e33e812d4/#bbf7

A one-to-one DirectX -> hardware palette

Yes, something like that. Those hacks are what enabled WinDirect.

Fun fact: Some older non-NT Windows video card drivers called a VESA video mode thru int 10h when changing screen resolutions by normal means. Not related to the VGA color palette, but it was more about having access to the registers where it shouldn't.

I think I have seen it. Terracide by Eidos accesses the ports 0x3d5 and 0x3d4 on start-up to do something.

Another important question, is WinDirect computed with MGL libraries or it could be independent of MGL. Is there any SDK and demo for WinDirect?

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-30, 13:17:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-09-30, 05:46:

More specifically, I was talking about this type of palette: https://sourceforge.net/p/dxwnd/discussion/ge … e33e812d4/#bbf7 […]
Show full quote

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-30, 03:24:

The VGA color palette isn't a part of WinDirect at all, the registers weren't entirely virtualized.

However, Windows in 8-bit color mode changes the color palette depending on the current application.

More specifically, I was talking about this type of palette:
https://sourceforge.net/p/dxwnd/discussion/ge … e33e812d4/#bbf7

A one-to-one DirectX -> hardware palette

Yes, something like that. Those hacks are what enabled WinDirect.

Fun fact: Some older non-NT Windows video card drivers called a VESA video mode thru int 10h when changing screen resolutions by normal means. Not related to the VGA color palette, but it was more about having access to the registers where it shouldn't.

(2)

What other games used WinDirect? A good list of them?

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-09-30, 14:21:

Another important question, is WinDirect computed with MGL libraries or it could be independent of MGL.

Could be independent of MGL.

Is there any SDK and demo for WinDirect?

Yes, they can be still obtained on the following link: http://ftp.lanet.lv/ftp/mirror/x2ftp/msdos/pr … amming/scitech/

The files are svgakt51.zip and svtest51.zip for the SDK and demo respectively. It is the "SuperVGA Kit" which uses WinDirect.

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-10-01, 12:18:

(2)

What other games used WinDirect? A good list of them?

Sadly, I only know one of these besides WinQuake and derivatives. 🙁

It is Total Mayhem. As for the list, it would be nice to make a new thread. Haven't seen anyone doing it yet.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-10-01, 13:33:

Could be independent of MGL. […]
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BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-09-30, 14:21:

Another important question, is WinDirect computed with MGL libraries or it could be independent of MGL.

Could be independent of MGL.

Is there any SDK and demo for WinDirect?

Yes, they can be still obtained on the following link: http://ftp.lanet.lv/ftp/mirror/x2ftp/msdos/pr … amming/scitech/

The files are svgakt51.zip and svtest51.zip for the SDK and demo respectively. It is the "SuperVGA Kit" which uses WinDirect.

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-10-01, 12:18:

(2)

What other games used WinDirect? A good list of them?

Sadly, I only know one of these besides WinQuake and derivatives. 🙁

It is Total Mayhem. As for the list, it would be nice to make a new thread. Haven't seen anyone doing it yet.

Okay I think that's enough I needed for now.
I created a thread for the apps List of applications utilising WinDirect

I also created a thread for it for Win32 games on DxWnd, I know it's like wishing at a shooting star (direct BIOS VGA isn't achieved, VBE for WDIR is far away) but it's open for discussion there.

Thanks.

Wikipedia doesnt know either of those, so must be quite obscure.
ok so MGL is SciTech MegaGraph Graphics Library https://github.com/id-Software/Quake/blob/mas … nclude/mglwin.h
but wtf is WinDirect? Afaik its not a part of WinG, its not DirectDraw, who provided it?

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-10-02, 18:19:

but wtf is WinDirect? Afaik its not a part of WinG, its not DirectDraw, who provided it?

SciTech provided WinDirect, the very same company that made MGL, Display Doctor and UniVBE.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-10-02, 19:41:

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-10-02, 18:19:

but wtf is WinDirect? Afaik its not a part of WinG, its not DirectDraw, who provided it?

SciTech provided WinDirect, the very same company that made MGL, Display Doctor and UniVBE.

Hi, there's one game, Lemmings Paintball. The game is Win32 (1996) and contains DISPDIB.DLL. Does that mean it uses WinDirect?

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-12-08, 08:05:

Hi, there's one game, Lemmings Paintball. The game is Win32 (1996) and contains DISPDIB.DLL. Does that mean it uses WinDirect?

No, the DLL file isn't related to WinDirect. It is an official one from Microsoft that only provides direct VGA access.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-12-08, 13:49:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-12-08, 08:05:

Hi, there's one game, Lemmings Paintball. The game is Win32 (1996) and contains DISPDIB.DLL. Does that mean it uses WinDirect?

No, the DLL file isn't related to WinDirect. It is an official one from Microsoft that only provides direct VGA access.

From your previous comment, WinDirect allows VGA and VESA access in Windows. This is also a Win32 game, needing VGA and VESA access. Then shouldn't WinDirect be required? Is DISPDIB a competitior of WinDirect then?

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-12-08, 16:07:

From your previous comment, WinDirect allows VGA and VESA access in Windows. This is also a Win32 game, needing VGA and VESA access. Then shouldn't WinDirect be required?

This game doesn't require WinDirect and DISPDIB.DLL is only used in fullscreen mode.

Is DISPDIB a competitior of WinDirect then?

Kind of yes. DISPDIB.DLL doesn't provide direct VESA access.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-12-08, 17:01:

This game doesn't require WinDirect and DISPDIB.DLL is only used in fullscreen mode. […]
Show full quote

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-12-08, 16:07:

From your previous comment, WinDirect allows VGA and VESA access in Windows. This is also a Win32 game, needing VGA and VESA access. Then shouldn't WinDirect be required?

This game doesn't require WinDirect and DISPDIB.DLL is only used in fullscreen mode.

Is DISPDIB a competitior of WinDirect then?

Kind of yes. DISPDIB.DLL doesn't provide direct VESA access.

Okay then I should look for WDIRXY.DLL files and not just DISPDIB.DLLs

Thanks

DISPDIB's also for Windows 3.1 and allows VGA there (part of Video for Windows drivers ~1992). Some of the earlier games that can use it are Out of this World, Fury3 and Burn/Cycle. It has nothing to do with Scitech WinDirect/MGL.