analog_programmer wrote on 2023-12-29, 19:25:

weedeewee wrote on 2023-12-29, 18:06:

analog_programmer wrote on 2023-12-29, 17:16:

OK, maybe this also explains what I asked for the environment variables place in AUTOEXEC.BAT file. So, is it a good idea to move everything except common env. variables from AUTOEXEC.BAT into CONFIG.SYS if not using menu items options and (just for example) SHELL/SHELLHIGH=COMMAND.COM /E:4096 at last row in CONFIG.SYS?

It's been a long time since I played around with it, so i'm not 100% certain about it.
I think setting the environment size to 4k like in your example would make any TSR use ~4K more memory when loaded from dos or command prompt.

4 KB space for env. variables is just random value for my command-line example, but I'm interested in the other part of the question: Will it be better, if all device drivers and TSRs are moved in CONFIG.SYS before all the standard DOS variables (at the bottom lines of the very same configuration file) with SHELL(HIGH) at the last place as AUTOEXEC.BAT will contain only common variables as for soundcards settings or similar (some "drivers" for these are not real drivers/TRSs, but registers initializing executables)? Or what's the optimal structure for DOS configuration files?

I don't know. All I remember is that during config.sys the environment size is minimal. I doubt that the location of the environment variables in autoexec.bat has any influence on the size of the environment memory, though I may be ignorant due to all the versions.
Also loading TSRs from config sys will make them unable to be unloaded (if at all possible). Something that is still possible when loaded from autoexec.bat if unloaded in the correct order, eg LIFO.

eddman wrote on 2023-12-29, 18:20:

Is this wrong then, or I'm not understanding it correctly?

In the past, INSTALL may have saved you a little bit of memory because it does not create an environment when it loads a program. With DOS 6.0 an environment is created, so the extra memory is no longer gained by using the INSTALL command (memory-resident programs can still be loaded from the AUTOEXEC.BAT file).

https://home.csulb.edu/~murdock/install.html

If this is true, it makes non-sense from all the DOS 6.22+ variable space INSTALL(HIGH) savings and arrangements in CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files. I have to try how it will exactly work in MS-DOS 7.10.

I think that information is partially correct. meh, best to test it.

So i ended up using QEMM97 what gives me 629KB Base memory free. With that the buggy ES Arena works now.
It also gives me full ems memory (in my case 64MB). So far anything works really good.

Jackhead wrote on 2023-12-31, 10:28:

So i ended up using QEMM97 what gives me 629KB Base memory free. With that the buggy ES Arena works now.
It also gives me full ems memory (in my case 64MB). So far anything works really good.

QEMM works mostly fine with MS-DOS 6.22 and Win3.1x, but what about other DOS versions or Win9x?

weedeewee wrote on 2023-12-29, 19:35:

I don't know. All I remember is that during config.sys the environment size is minimal. I doubt that the location of the environment variables in autoexec.bat has any influence on the size of the environment memory, though I may be ignorant due to all the versions.
Also loading TSRs from config sys will make them unable to be unloaded (if at all possible). Something that is still possible when loaded from autoexec.bat if unloaded in the correct order, eg LIFO.

I found this (the source):

So, it seems that order maybe does matter.

Edit: Slightly edited the link to be more exact.

analog_programmer wrote on 2023-12-31, 11:12:

QEMM works mostly fine with MS-DOS 6.22 and Win3.1x, but what about other DOS versions or Win9x? […]
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Jackhead wrote on 2023-12-31, 10:28:

So i ended up using QEMM97 what gives me 629KB Base memory free. With that the buggy ES Arena works now.
It also gives me full ems memory (in my case 64MB). So far anything works really good.

QEMM works mostly fine with MS-DOS 6.22 and Win3.1x, but what about other DOS versions or Win9x?

weedeewee wrote on 2023-12-29, 19:35:

I don't know. All I remember is that during config.sys the environment size is minimal. I doubt that the location of the environment variables in autoexec.bat has any influence on the size of the environment memory, though I may be ignorant due to all the versions.
Also loading TSRs from config sys will make them unable to be unloaded (if at all possible). Something that is still possible when loaded from autoexec.bat if unloaded in the correct order, eg LIFO.

I found this (the source):

dos_config.jpg

So, it seems that order maybe does matter.

Which order are you now referring to ?

I'm not seeing it on that page you linked.
Variables after TSRs
Nor is there any reference to INSTALL= or INSTALLHIGH=, used in config.sys
There is a reference to the environment size, yet they continue loading the TSRs from autoexec.bat.

each TSR loaded from autoexec gets a full copy of the environment memory... mmmh does it only get what is in use or does it get the max size it can be?
I don't know anymore, test it.

weedeewee wrote on 2023-12-31, 11:52:

Variables after TSRs Nor is there any reference to INSTALL= or INSTALLHIGH=, used in config.sys There is a reference to the envi […]
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Variables after TSRs
Nor is there any reference to INSTALL= or INSTALLHIGH=, used in config.sys
There is a reference to the environment size, yet they continue loading the TSRs from autoexec.bat.

each TSR loaded from autoexec gets a full copy of the environment memory... mmmh does it only get what is in use or does it get the max size it can be?
I don't know anymore, test it.

You're right. But this isn't a reference to INSTALL(HIGH) or "let's-put-everything-that's-possible-in-config.sys", but rather an example for the structure of DOS config files. I'll test different structures and INSTALLHIGH option in MS-DOS 7.10... next year 😀 Also I've plan to test some alternative DOS memory-managers, but first things first.

QEMM magic: