Jo22 wrote on 2024-02-09, 18:09:

More like task swapping, though, maybe. 🤷‍♂️

Cool! Never knew it can do this.

Nope, DN can't do such things. It is more like Norton Commander on steroids.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-02-09, 18:09:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tB035ZDMZD4

More like task swapping, though, maybe. 🤷‍♂️

DOS Shell was pretty good DOS file manager, but m$ killed it intentionally in the sake of win3.xx.

I can back up some of the data to a USB drive and even have drivers that handle USB and LFNs. Maybe I'll do that the next time I'm at my mother's house. Thank you.

Uhh...I want to compress the data backed up. What DOS-based compression utility can handle LFNs?

froller wrote on 2024-02-09, 20:25:

Jo22 wrote on 2024-02-09, 18:09:

More like task swapping, though, maybe. 🤷‍♂️

Cool! Never knew it can do this.

Nope, DN can't do such things. It is more like Norton Commander on steroids.

I use X-Tree, mostly for nostalgic reasons. Version 2 has a lower memory footprint than 3.0. DOS Navigator is another one that is quite good. Norton Commander is installed on all my retro machines for it's excellent serial link connection. Maybe NC 4.0?

Thank you. I'll Google and download it now. 😀

Uhh...where can I get it? Google gave me millions of unrelated results. 🙁

Never mind: I found it on REMOVED. Thank you for the tip. 😀

Before I look into it: does it support multi-tasking? BTW, I want my mother to use the computer as well, but she's not good with computers. 🙁 I asked her if she would use my laptops there, but she said she's afraid of breaking them. 🙁 I have Moo installed on it and set up for minimal use. I can add more.

You don't seem too comfortable with computers yourself there Harry - I'd suggest getting your mother an iPad. My mother loves hers.

Harry Potter wrote on 2024-02-11, 11:38:

Before I look into it: does it support multi-tasking? BTW, I want my mother to use the computer as well, but she's not good with computers. 🙁 I asked her if she would use my laptops there, but she said she's afraid of breaking them. 🙁 I have Moo installed on it and set up for minimal use. I can add more.

Then just install Linux. Some of the latest KDE spins. They look and feel pretty much like Windows but it's harder to break them w/o root access.
If she doesn't need some kind of software that has not been ported yet she will not feel any difference.

I recall using something like Norton Commander at one point, I think that's the one with the floppy disk screensaver if I'm correct. As for multitasking, I don't think DOS is designed for multitasking and even if there is, it probably isn't the best (correct me if I'm wrong.)

As for data, if it has anything important in it, I would definitely invest in using a adapter to get the data to a newer machine/harddisk. I can't stress this enough.

analog_programmer wrote on 2024-02-09, 21:40:

Jo22 wrote on 2024-02-09, 18:09:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tB035ZDMZD4

More like task swapping, though, maybe. 🤷‍♂️

DOS Shell was pretty good DOS file manager, but m$ killed it intentionally in the sake of win3.xx.

Hi, the history behind these things is really fascinating.

The DOS shell and the OS/2 and Windows task-switcher are related.

The task-swapper of the DOS Shell looks not too different to the one used in Windows 3.x Standard-Mode.
The inactive application is essentially freezed and swapped out of memory.

In OS/2 1.0 textmode, the shell's switcher mechanism existed, too.
It had the same gray "title bar" at the top of the screen, if memory serves.

Then there's MS-DOS Executive from Windows 1.x and 2.x, which resembles MS-DOS Shell a bit.

Or MS-DOS Manager 1.0 from the DOS 3.x days.
It essentially became the DOS Shell in DOS 4.

Edit: What's also cool about DOS Shell, it has similar colour schemes to Windows 3.x.
I liked emerald, for example. It also could use VGA text mode, to display custom icons not found in the DOS codepage (folder icon, scroll bar parts, drive icon etc).

Edit: I mean, you're right that Windows 3 killed DOS Shell.
In MS-DOS 4 and 5, the DOS Shell was meant to be the friendly face of the system.

When Windows 3.x was out, Microsoft began to bundle MS-DOS 5/6 and Windows.
That resulted in the popular WfW 3.11 with MS-DOS 6.2x bundles.

By that time, DOS Shell no longer was the default GUI by that point. Gratefully, it was available via the supplemental disks.
The English version, at least.

In order to get hold of a localized copy, MS-DOS 6.0 was needed.
It had all the supplemental disk files, but localized.

Edit: Hi, this is perhaps a bit off topic, but PC-Tools 7.x had a graphical desktop program using VGA text mode (a TUI rather than a GUI).
Including a few nice utilities. Calculator notepad, a terminal program, ASCII chart etc.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-02-14, 09:02:

Hi, the history behind these things is really fascinating. […]
Show full quote

Hi, the history behind these things is really fascinating.

The DOS shell and the OS/2 and Windows task-switcher are related.

The task-swapper of the DOS Shell looks not too different to the one used in Windows 3.x Standard-Mode.
The inactive application is essentially freezed and swapped out of memory.

In OS/2 1.0 textmode, the shell's switcher mechanism existed, too.
It had the same gray "title bar" at the top of the screen, if memory serves.

Then there's MS-DOS Executive from Windows 1.x and 2.x, which resembles MS-DOS Shell a bit.

Or MS-DOS Manager 1.0 from the DOS 3.x days.
It essentially became the DOS Shell in DOS 4.

Edit: What's also cool about DOS Shell, it has similar colour schemes to Windows 3.x.
I liked emerald, for example. It also could use VGA text mode, to display custom icons not found in the DOS codepage (folder icon, scroll bar parts, drive icon etc).

Edit: I mean, you're right that Windows 3 killed DOS Shell.
In MS-DOS 4 and 5, the DOS Shell was meant to be the friendly face of the system.

When Windows 3.x was out, Microsoft began to bundle MS-DOS 5/6 and Windows.
That resulted in the popular WfW 3.11 with MS-DOS 6.2x bundles.

By that time, DOS Shell no longer was the default GUI by that point. Gratefully, it was available via the supplemental disks.
The English version, at least.

In order to get hold of a localized copy, MS-DOS 6.0 was needed.
It had all the supplemental disk files, but localized.

Edit: Hi, this is perhaps a bit off topic, but PC-Tools 7.x had a graphical desktop program using VGA text mode (a TUI rather than a GUI).
Including a few nice utilities. Calculator notepad, a terminal program, ASCII chart etc.

Thanks for the details, Jo22. In the late '80s and early '90s I used m$-DOS 3.30 on some IBM-XT-clone 16 bit school computers, but I don't remember this "MS-DOS Manager 1.0" file manager. Maybe it's only available with some OEM DOS 3.xx versions. And actually PC-Tools (don't remember which version) was very convenient set of tools/utilities to be used with DOS 3.30.

P.S. Taking a broader (abstract) view of the DOS things, windows (for workgroups) 3.11 (up to "mistake edition" - including) is/has the best file manager for DOS 😀