Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby 640K!enough » 2018-2-12 @ 16:10

mateusz.viste wrote:There is a wealth of information inside, thanks for the link! I will see if I can easily add support to DOSMid. Don't have any GUS hardware to test, but I noticed DOSBox got some GUS emulation, so that should be enough I guess. Will post here when/if I get this done, so perhaps one of the GUS-clone owners could see if it works on this modern clone.

It may be worth mentioning that there are two generations of Gravis cards; those based on the GF1, like the original UltraSound, ACE and Max, and those based on the InterWave, like the PnP and PnP Pro. Software designed for GF1-based boards will largely run on InterWave boards (if there is some RAM present), but software designed for native InterWave mode will not run on GF1 boards. GF1 boards are probably more common, so you may want to give some thought to which generation of cards you support. There is a full SDK available for the GF1 cards as well.
640K!enough
Member
 
Posts: 408
Joined: 2017-5-11 @ 17:52
Location: Canada

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby 640K!enough » 2018-2-12 @ 16:23

Rawit wrote:Mega-Em 3.06 loads samples from RAM instead of ROM on a PnP if I'm not mistaken. Don't know if that is helpful with understanding Mega-Em's behaviour.

I don't know if that's the case for the UltraMID functionality, but GM and FM emulation are definitely ROM-based on the latest versions (3.11, at least). In fact, they work with no RAM present on the board at all.
640K!enough
Member
 
Posts: 408
Joined: 2017-5-11 @ 17:52
Location: Canada

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby Phreeze » 2018-2-12 @ 18:41

btw: i just copied all the G-List games into a folder, 4.2GB. Exceptions: education games, wingcommander3,4 and one or the other CD image gamem which would kill the size :D happy that they all can be put on one dvd
ArGUS Parts list: http://bit.ly/2Ddf89V
User avatar
Phreeze
Member
 
Posts: 132
Joined: 2016-10-11 @ 08:24

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby keropi » 2018-2-13 @ 11:15

Sorry if this has been asked before but do I need a ROM installed to use PNPMAP to write the eeprom?
I have finished my card but PNPMAP complains with this error "Interwave card not found" and quits
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 6597
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby shock__ » 2018-2-13 @ 11:27

PNPMAP should work as soon as the serial EEPROM is installed.
Installation/absence of the 29F800/IW78C21M1 is not relevant.
User avatar
shock__
Oldbie
 
Posts: 929
Joined: 2010-12-22 @ 01:53
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby keropi » 2018-2-13 @ 11:58

allright, it doesn't work for me :( will try on another system

Image Image

Image Image


edit:
nope, same error again
Last edited by keropi on 2018-2-13 @ 14:17, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 6597
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby shock__ » 2018-2-13 @ 13:16

Try bridging the 2 rightmost pads on JP4 / JP5
User avatar
shock__
Oldbie
 
Posts: 929
Joined: 2010-12-22 @ 01:53
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby keropi » 2018-2-13 @ 14:16

shock__ wrote:Try bridging the 2 rightmost pads on JP4 / JP5


Yes, that was the problem thanks shock__ :blush:

Image Image

normally that wouldn't be an issue since you are supposed to install a ROM and configure the jumpers but I want to wait for the IW78C21M1 one :cool:
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 6597
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby 640K!enough » 2018-2-13 @ 16:36

keropi wrote:normally that wouldn't be an issue since you are supposed to install a ROM and configure the jumpers but I want to wait for the IW78C21M1 one

For anyone who has yet to build the card, it is important to remember to set JP4 and JP5 as instructed on the card, whether your ROM is in place or not. These connect to RA20 and RA21, and are used to configure the InterWave following reset. If they are not in place, you are guaranteed to get unpredictable results, even if the card appears to work initially.
640K!enough
Member
 
Posts: 408
Joined: 2017-5-11 @ 17:52
Location: Canada

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby keropi » 2018-2-14 @ 12:53

Image

I have finished and tested my card - for now since I am still waiting for the IW78C21M1 to arrive.
Overall the assembly was trouble-free and everything is well thought-out. I only ran into two "issues"

a. Capacitors C725 C718 C721 are too close together and C718 does not have enough space, had to use another taller one with a smaller diameter to have them fit OK. Sure this is dependent on the capacitors used but a little more space would be more convenient.
b. I sacrificed a CT4180 Vibra card for it's bracket and the MPC+P45 internal audio connectors. I have found that the holes do not align very well with the stereo jack connectors, I had to twist slightly the last one to make it fit. Not sure if all Vibras have the same exact bracket.

Image Image

I have tried a couple of 16MB SIMMs, all worked for me single or double-sided ones. I ended up using the single-sided one in the picture. The RAM test in the DOS SETUP gravis program took an ungodly ~37mins to test the 16MB RAM , this is normal right? :D
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 6597
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby 640K!enough » 2018-2-14 @ 15:33

keropi wrote:I have finished and tested my card

Do you use leaded solder, or is there a lead-free formulation that gives such clean-looking joints now? The older stuff I have seems to end up slightly blobby, regardless of temperature or other factors, and always leaves a crust from the flux core behind. It also smells much worse than 63/37.
640K!enough
Member
 
Posts: 408
Joined: 2017-5-11 @ 17:52
Location: Canada

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby keropi » 2018-2-14 @ 16:45

@640K!enough
I am using leaded solder that is newly produced and has a flux core as well. Since it's still allowed here one can get new batches of solder that don't have that crusty looks, I know what you mean. There is no smell but there is some transparent flux residue afterwards so I clean it with a bit of IPA - but not always.
See the shot here: https://imgur.com/EN4py1O at the simm connector backside: I did not clean it there, you can see the flux (they claim non-corrosive, non-contactive)
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 6597
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby Phreeze » 2018-2-14 @ 17:37

it seems that the german postal service has lost 3 !!!!! letters and packages from me in 2 weeks. 1 package i sent, 2 simple letters that i should receive. One of them contains my programmed M29F800, so 13euros gone alone for these that i have to reorder (= time and useless lots of money) and resend to a friend to program...fuck them
ArGUS Parts list: http://bit.ly/2Ddf89V
User avatar
Phreeze
Member
 
Posts: 132
Joined: 2016-10-11 @ 08:24

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby mateusz.viste » 2018-2-15 @ 16:06

mateusz.viste wrote:Hi all, I'm wondering about adding GUS support to DOSMid.


Done. I cannot test it with actual hardware, but it seems to work on DOSBox at least:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa5HADhxSgM

Here is a temporary link to the 'preview' DOSMid version featuring GUS support:
http://mateusz.viste.fr/tmp/dosmid-gus/ ... ta-gus.zip

Any chance any of you guys could tell if it works with this GUS clone you have? (or with a real GUS)
It requires ULTRAMID.EXE to be loaded.
User avatar
mateusz.viste
Newbie
 
Posts: 62
Joined: 2015-7-17 @ 13:03
Location: Millevaches upland

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby Menkau_ra » 2018-2-15 @ 19:27

I want to get in line for this card!
User avatar
Menkau_ra
Newbie
 
Posts: 93
Joined: 2009-11-22 @ 20:52
Location: USA

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby Synoptic » 2018-2-16 @ 14:40

Starting to assemble mine today !
Image
Synoptic
Member
 
Posts: 226
Joined: 2010-1-24 @ 15:56
Location: Canada

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby keropi » 2018-2-16 @ 19:30

mateusz.viste wrote:
mateusz.viste wrote:Hi all, I'm wondering about adding GUS support to DOSMid.


Done. I cannot test it with actual hardware, but it seems to work on DOSBox at least:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa5HADhxSgM

Here is a temporary link to the 'preview' DOSMid version featuring GUS support:
http://mateusz.viste.fr/tmp/dosmid-gus/ ... ta-gus.zip

Any chance any of you guys could tell if it works with this GUS clone you have? (or with a real GUS)
It requires ULTRAMID.EXE to be loaded.


I just tested the GUS DOSMID and it works fine with my GUS Classic - I have not yet setup the ARGUS clone to any system but I don't see why it won't work there as well.
Great work mateusz.viste ! :cool:
User avatar
keropi
l33t++
 
Posts: 6597
Joined: 2003-9-08 @ 06:45
Location: Greece

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby 640K!enough » 2018-2-17 @ 05:22

mateusz.viste wrote:Any chance any of you guys could tell if it works with this GUS clone you have? (or with a real GUS)
It requires ULTRAMID.EXE to be loaded.

I took a few minutes to test it on an InterWave-based Gravis card in two different configurations. The first was with Mega-Em 3.11 providing UltraMID functionality, and the second was using GF1 compatibility, the older GUS UltraMID 1.x and PPLT patch set.

In the first case, all instruments were used from the ROM. While it did work, playback was somewhat compromised, as it always is when using Mega-Em on an InterWave board. That is to say that additional instrument or drum banks are not used, only bank 0. There isn't likely anything you can do about that, other than implementing native InterWave support.

Using GF1 compatibility mode, there was another set of trade-offs. Again, additional drum banks were not used, instead being replaced by their counterparts from the standard kit. An additional, more irritating symptom of using UltraMID also negatively affected playback: in cases where a file called for an instrument whose patch hadn't previously been loaded, there was a bit of a stall in the playback, and that first note seemed to be skipped. Once the patch was in the on-board memory, playback continued normally. There are a few obvious ways to work around this. The ideal way would be to scan the MIDI file and use UltraMID calls to load all patches before beginning playback. A second, slightly kludgier way would be to scan the MIDI file and play a note with each one at zero volume before actually starting playback of the file.

If additional testing would be helpful, please feel free to start another DOSMid-on-GUS thread or contact me privately, to avoid having too many sub-topics within the same thread.
Last edited by 640K!enough on 2018-2-17 @ 17:43, edited 1 time in total.
640K!enough
Member
 
Posts: 408
Joined: 2017-5-11 @ 17:52
Location: Canada

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby 640K!enough » 2018-2-17 @ 06:29

I can finally provide a definitive answer to this old question:
elianda wrote:Is it possible to generate a custom ROM that works with Megaem ?
I am asking because a lot games require UltraMID API and Megaem provides it with a very low memory footprint of 768 bytes.

Yes, with the restriction that the entire instrument set must be contained within the first ROM bank, which places a strict limit on the maximum size of the set (4 MiB). As with the standard AMD/Eye & I ROM, only the standard drum kit (bank 0) is used, and issuing a bank select message sometimes causes issues with playback that aren't present when using native InterWave support.
640K!enough
Member
 
Posts: 408
Joined: 2017-5-11 @ 17:52
Location: Canada

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby Synoptic » 2018-2-17 @ 17:43

Almost done. Missing the ROM.
The RAM is double Sided.




Image
Image
Synoptic
Member
 
Posts: 226
Joined: 2010-1-24 @ 15:56
Location: Canada

PreviousNext

Return to Sound

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests