Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby ruthan » 2018-10-20 @ 23:59

I want to test my second Yamaha 744 with my i865 machine, where other Yamaha 744 worked, i got strange error boot that legacy audio is disable.. I tried to load setup utility, but i get message that there not Yamaha chip card inserted (Cant find Yamaha DS-XG). When started it realmode without driver utility can be executed.. (but i dont know if it is big deal). That second card, worked fine with VIA 880 Ultra (with exactly same driver, i just copied it not change anything in ini or setup utility) only disadvantages was some crackling in some games and worse compatibility - but i though (and thing) that was "just compatibility think", i double checked if its right in slot..
After that i tried my first Yamaha 744, first already worked with this machine, with exactly same settings and its working fine, in exactly same slot.

Conclusions:
- If didnt killed my second Yamaha 744 (in process i assume that i didnt).
a) My second card is half dead, i had 3rd card some same Polish source, which not worked even with Via 880 ultra, i dont have it now at this location, i thought that i could be problem with slot contact, but my testbench sucks - cards is 1-2mm higher than it should be.
b) There is some difference between cards, maybe some firmware etc. I looked at chips there is slight difference in not working has (Yamaha744B-R), working one has (744-V). True is that second card was cheap, it is a bit paranoic, but i would be totrally surprised if someone would try to sell some half that RMA cards, because seller had lots of them.
I looked into datasheet:
only difference i found is this:
YMF744B-V : 0.5mm pin pitch
YMF744B-R : 0.4mm pin pitch

Some pictures..
Working one, its looks more deluxe, has digital output, it was advertised as Aopen one:
YamahaDeluxeTop.jpg

DeluxeChip.jpg

BottomDeluxe.jpg


NonWorking one - regarding of A logo is Abit or Aopen too:
Yamaha-CheapTop.jpg

ChipCheap.jpg


Any ideas?
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby j^aws » 2018-10-21 @ 15:59

ruthan wrote:NonWorking one - regarding of A logo is Abit or Aopen too:
Yamaha-CheapTop.jpg

ChipCheap.jpg

Any ideas?

This 744 chip is a different shape than the working one, and looks like a rebranded knockoff/ fake. This chip is smaller and squarer, which resembles a 754, but it is still printed as a 744. It's probably some CMI 87xx knockoff...
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby ruthan » 2018-10-21 @ 17:07

j^aws wrote:This 744 chip is a different shape than the working one, and looks like a rebranded knockoff/ fake. This chip is smaller and squarer, which resembles a 754, but it is still printed as a 744. It's probably some CMI 87xx knockoff...

If it is fake, its very good one because with other mainboard is recognized by Yamaha driver and at least partially is working..
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby cyclone3d » 2018-10-21 @ 19:03

j^aws wrote:
ruthan wrote:NonWorking one - regarding of A logo is Abit or Aopen too:
Yamaha-CheapTop.jpg

ChipCheap.jpg

Any ideas?

This 744 chip is a different shape than the working one, and looks like a rebranded knockoff/ fake. This chip is smaller and squarer, which resembles a 754, but it is still printed as a 744. It's probably some CMI 87xx knockoff...


Nope, definitely not a fake. Those cards were made by AOPEN. The layout of their AW744-L card (with the larger chip) is almost exactly the same except for the changes required for the smaller footprint chip. The part number for the one with the smaller chip is AW744-L2.
You can look it up on AOPEN.com and then go to whatever region. Then go to Support and then "Other Useful Links -> Downloads -> Sound Cards, and then the model number.

And if you look at the YMF744B datasheet, it shows BOTH types of chips.
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet_pdf/yamaha/YMF744B-R_and_YMF744B-V.pdf
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby j^aws » 2018-10-21 @ 19:51

^^ Nice find - so it's a lower power package with a smaller size? Makes sense, as I've seen both OPL2 and OPL3 chips reduced this way, too.
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby Neco » 2018-10-23 @ 17:45

Gonna pick up an AW744L II myself, they seem to be really good cards for DOS gaming. and that auction on ebay is still going
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby ruthan » 2018-11-16 @ 13:45

I did some more testing.. even cheaper Yamaha is working with Conroe 865, but i have probably too much PCI cards / MB problem, because once is sound card / nic / working at boot, once not.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough HW.
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby tpowell.ca » 2019-1-24 @ 18:53

Anyone find a way to enable the digital input mixer setting in DOS ?

I connected my CD-ROM's digital audio out to the card. Sounds perfect in Windows, but it is muted in pure DOS. The SETUPDS utiliy has no setting for DIGITAL IN. :(
    Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160, 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, ESS688, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB, HardMPU
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby cyclone3d » 2019-1-24 @ 20:03

tpowell.ca wrote:Anyone find a way to enable the digital input mixer setting in DOS ?

I connected my CD-ROM's digital audio out to the card. Sounds perfect in Windows, but it is muted in pure DOS. The SETUPDS utiliy has no setting for DIGITAL IN. :(


Maybe look in the .INI file that SETUPDS uses.
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby tpowell.ca » 2019-1-24 @ 21:49

cyclone3d wrote:
tpowell.ca wrote:Anyone find a way to enable the digital input mixer setting in DOS ?

I connected my CD-ROM's digital audio out to the card. Sounds perfect in Windows, but it is muted in pure DOS. The SETUPDS utiliy has no setting for DIGITAL IN. :(


Maybe look in the .INI file that SETUPDS uses.


Yup, that was the first place I checked. But it only seems to have analog inputs and outputs.
    Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160, 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, ESS688, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB, HardMPU
    Newton: K6XV3+/66, AMD K6-III+500, 256MB, 32GB SSD, AWE32, GUS 16MB, Voodoo3-3k
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby RayeR » 2019-1-25 @ 01:06

You can try my YMF7xx tool to manually change mixer registers if you find which one is CD digital volume (see linux header file to have an idea which registers belongs to mixer).
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=49489&p=724266#p724266
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby tpowell.ca » 2019-1-25 @ 02:43

RayeR wrote:You can try my YMF7xx tool to manually change mixer registers if you find which one is CD digital volume (see linux header file to have an idea which registers belongs to mixer).
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=49489&p=724266#p724266


Wow.
RayeR strikes again. Your SMB tool has been a massive help in obtaining different FSB settings on my 440BX motherboard without touching jumpers.
Have you found out which registers control other things beyond the SPDIF out? <-- nevermind, the header file you spoke of answers those questions.

Ok, so it seems that to enable the SPDIF IN to pipe out through the DAC you need:
reg 08h set to 00h
reg 34h set to 25h

The volume is set by reg 88h (left) and 8Ah (right) with the param being maxed out at 3FFFh I believe.

Cheers and thanks for the great tools!
    Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160, 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, ESS688, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB, HardMPU
    Newton: K6XV3+/66, AMD K6-III+500, 256MB, 32GB SSD, AWE32, GUS 16MB, Voodoo3-3k
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby RayeR » 2019-1-25 @ 19:37

You're welcome. Nice to read you figured out the digi CD/spdif inpunt. Register names are not much clear and also it may vary on different soundcards how the chip inputs are routed. But I could change this mixer description. I persnonally don't use digital in/out on YMF as I use it only for DOS and SB Audigy is my primary card. It would be nice ro reveal SBA mixer config so I could route YMF output via SBA without use of a selector switch between soundcards outputs and amplifier...

BTW SMB is still under development but I have some modules messed up due to my various experiement (e.g. ATA TRIM) so I cannot compile a clean release now, but one day it will come :)
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby tpowell.ca » 2019-1-25 @ 21:30

Also, having been to Prague a few times, I must say that I really miss the good food and especially the fantastic beers you guys brew.
I didn't like Staropramen that much but I was a big fan of Bernard.
    Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160, 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, ESS688, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB, HardMPU
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby RayeR » 2019-1-26 @ 03:23

Hehe, I wouldn't call Staropramen a beer :) but it's almost everywhere and cheap one, Bernard is OK.
If you will come back try to visit:
http://www.zlycasy.eu
http://www.restauracekulovyblesk.cz
http://www.ubansethu.cz
There you find various local beers and good kitchen for good price :)

I have never beed in USA yet.
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby gdjacobs » 2019-1-26 @ 04:19

Come to Canada instead! We try to be pleasant to make up for the awful winters.
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby tpowell.ca » 2019-1-27 @ 02:51

gdjacobs wrote:Come to Canada instead! We try to be pleasant to make up for the awful winters.


Indeed, although I really think that our ridicule of American beers is just nonsense. Our mainstream beers are just as bad, and their microbrews are amazing (as are some of ours).
    Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160, 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, ESS688, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB, HardMPU
    Newton: K6XV3+/66, AMD K6-III+500, 256MB, 32GB SSD, AWE32, GUS 16MB, Voodoo3-3k
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby gregholwell » 2019-1-31 @ 20:21

I have found in testing a PCI card which holds the YMF724 chip that the Sondius-XG feature, which is available with the Windows 95/98/98SE .vxd driver but not with the Windows 2000/XP/etc WDM driver, is compatible with the VL70m synthesiser except that the Distortion block (Sysex address 03 00 xx) is not implemented. The latency is sufficiently low that I can play directly from a keyboard, whereas the S-YXG100 softsynth has advertised something like 500ms latency and thus seems useful only as an option to play midifiles. See also groups.yahoo.com/group/YamahaYMF7x4.
Last edited by gregholwell on 2019-2-04 @ 21:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby gregholwell » 2019-1-31 @ 20:58

"VL voices are not GM-compatible, and are useless for anyone who is not a musician."

I disagree. VL-XG voices (Bank MSB 97, Bank LSB 112 to 119) will play as VL70m voices on a Sondius-XG enabled YMF7x4 (and presumably S-YXG100 softsynth) and as GM voices on any other Yamaha XG-based synth.
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Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby Concupiscence » 2019-8-19 @ 15:22

This thread is a heck of a resource, thank you all so much! I do wonder about my prospects for getting my AOpen YM744 working in an EVGA P55 LE with a Core i5 750, but will report back here with results.
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