Thanks for the replies guys, I'm glad to hear that the Acer Magic card isn't too noisy. I'll hunt around for one to add to my collection.

I have an AWE64 Gold (CT4390) and I'd say it's the second best card sound quality wise in my collection. Practically no noise, but the output seems to be a bit more filtered than the Tropez 32 and doesn't sound quite as clear. (The differences are VERY slight though). I built a custom wavetable header for the AWE64 Gold, but it's currently sitting on my AWE64 Value (CT4520) so that I could test the hanging note bug on these cards. I'm happy to say that neither card has the hanging note bug.

I want to get an MT-32 in the future, so I'll definitely download SoftMPU when I finally get it.

orcish75 wrote:

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm glad to hear that the Acer Magic card isn't too noisy. I'll hunt around for one to add to my collection.

It is unfortunate I only know one rare card model with Crystal CS4232 combined with simply an OPL3 and Waveblaster header. Most cards with CS4232 have a Midi synth tied to it, often doing FM with that midi chipset too.

orcish75 wrote:

I'm happy to say that neither card has the hanging note bug.

AWE64 has about 4 cons, not that big, but still 4: Midi interface seems to choke on the music of X-Wing and TIE fighter games. Cloned FM which is integrated. No waveblaster header. Not SB-Pro compatible.
It seems like an interesting card for some people, depending on wheter the first 3 cons matter. Con 4 seems to have little practical impact AFAIK.

elianda wrote:

It always looks as a PC can have only one solution and having wavetable MIDI excludes having a real OPL3. A PC can be expanded, so you can have both at the same time.

Midi is easy to add, as the MPU-401 address is configurable in games setup, at least 300h and 330h. Also the MPU-401 interface of a card can usually be added or disabled individually.
But Sound Blaster IO is partly tied to the FM address. Because some games use the base address 220h to access the FM. It means such a game will not allow you to pass FM to any other card then the one you are using for digitized sound.
Another thing that may be annoying is using two soundcard mixers. When volume is off somehow, or when background noise increases; you have to check both mixers.
I found 1 ISA + 1 quality PCI card a worthwhile combo for a Windows 9X machine. But remember my attempts in combining multiple Sound Blaster ISA cards and compatibles as unnecessarily unreliable.

orcish75 wrote:

I built a custom wavetable header for the AWE64 Gold, but it's currently sitting on my AWE64 Value (CT4520) so that I could test the hanging note bug on these cards. I'm happy to say that neither card has the hanging note bug.

Wavetable header for AWE64 - sounds interesting! Any pics/further info on how you did it?

What does it mean when the "SB-PRO is not supported by the AWE64"? I mean you select soundblaster in older games and hey presto, whats the difference?

Games that support stereo sound with a SB Pro will output mono sound with a SB16 or AWE.

But all those games also support SB16 so it's not a problem 😀

bjt wrote:

Wavetable header for AWE64 - sounds interesting! Any pics/further info on how you did it?

Sure, no problem, I'll take some pics when I get home tonight. It is a bit of a hack job, but I had a custom board made as well. I want to change the custom board a bit with through holes so that the pins sit on it better.

bjt wrote:

Games that support stereo sound with a SB Pro will output mono sound with a SB16 or AWE.

This is for stereo digital speech ONLY! It is amazing how this Internet myth keeps staying alive.

Any OPL3 and OPL3 clone card will give you Stereo FM music for games that support the OPL3 Sound Blaster Pro. Simple as that 😀

And there are almost no games that:

1. Offered stereo digital speech when the SB Pro was around
2. Did not offer support for the Sound Blaster 16

And Wolfenstein 3D does NOT support stereo digital speech it manipulates the mixers to get a Stereo effect going.

Back in those days digital samples are mono and like 10khz because they shipped on floppy.

So having no SB Pro compatibility is not a big deal. What is more annoying is that the Sound Blaster Pro has Left and Right channels swapped. What a pain in the neck that can be 😀

The X-Wing / Tie Fighter issue I'm not aware and haven't tested this as I don't have the games. Wouldn't mind doing some test with a Sound Canvas though.

What is more annoying is that the Sound Blaster Pro has Left and Right channels swapped. What a pain in the neck that can be 😀

I thought something strange was going on with my 386 system with my brand new 2.0 Logitech speakers, I remember double checking my speakers to make sure they were on the correct side facing me I figured they interpreted the left and right channels from the computers perspective or something like that.

So there is no real reason to use a SB Pro over a good SB16/32 with a real OPL3?

dirkmirk wrote:

I thought something strange was going on with my 386 system with my brand new 2.0 Logitech speakers, I remember double checking my speakers to make sure they were on the correct side facing me I figured they interpreted the left and right channels from the computers perspective or something like that.

That's why some games have this option to swap L and R. Worse is that SOME SB Pro compatible cards DID NOT swap the channels. So quite a mess 😀

Soupdragon wrote:

So there is no real reason to use a SB Pro over a good SB16/32 with a real OPL3?

IMO no. But SB16 cards often have that hanging note bug so many look for alternative cards and they are usually SB Pro compatible and not SB16 compatible. For me the AWE64 Gold and SB Pro 2 are my favourite Creative cards 😀 If you don't use MIDI and are a OPL3 fan the Sound Blaster Pro 2 will bring you lots of joy.

My first sound card I had in my 386 was an Orchid Sound Producer Pro a SB Pro clone. I think it had a real OPL. My second sound card was a Ensoniq Soundscape Vivo that came in a Gateway 2000 Pentium Pro I remember liking its wavetable output. I then swapped it for my first real creative card a AWE64 value and it felt like step backwards. I didn't like the wavetable compared to the Ensoniq and the FM didn't even sound like I remembered from the SB Pro clone. At the time I didn't know any better and I thought it must be better and my ears were in the wrong.

Now when I go back and play old games I use a real OPL for FM or a Roland box for MIDI and they both sound great. Without sites like this I would still be clueless. PC magazines in the UK back in the early 90's didn't seem to discuses the pros and cons of each card and the internet wasn't around so I guess its forgivable.

I have been using an awe 64 gold with 28MB connected to a Roland SC55ST and I am really happy with it.

I also have a yamaha ymf-718 and its probably the least noisy card I have ever used. The adlib support is a really nice touch and it sounds great but in my other system I choose an old noisy sound blaster 16 ct1750 because I feel its more accurate at producing sound as it was intended for the games I like.

Soupdragon wrote:

Now when I go back and play old games I use a real OPL for FM or a Roland box for MIDI and they both sound great. Without sites like this I would still be clueless. PC magazines in the UK back in the early 90's didn't seem to discuses the pros and cons of each card and the internet wasn't around so I guess its forgivable.

Tell me about it!

I got a Spea Media FX. Fell for the MT-32 compatibility. It had no OPL chip, poor SB compatibility and of course only compatibility to MT-32 games with default instruments.

Sold it and got a SB16 basic and Sound Canvas wavetable board.

This is the card with the header attached.

Close up of the header. (Sorry, my phone battles to take decent close up pictures)

MediaVision Pro Wave 4MB Korg chipset wavetable board

Wavetable attached to SB AWE64 Value

Wavetable and SimmConn (32MB SIMM) connected, the ultimate AWE64 Value! 😀

Cool! Thanks for the pics.

gerwin wrote:

But Sound Blaster IO is partly tied to the FM address. Because some games use the base address 220h to access the FM. It means such a game will not allow you to pass FM to any other card then the one you are using for digitized sound.

Just to add in, I would like to call to your attention that when I tried with using two sound cards once :

1. Sound Blaster 1.5 CT1320B @ A220 I7

2. Sound Blaster AWE32 CT2760 @ A240 I5

on a 486 DX2-66 system,

Game : Tested with Laura Bow - The Colonel's Bequest

Actually I loaded the game to test the CMS chips on the 1.5 that I had installed at that time, and when I wanted to compare the Game Blaster music and the OPL music, both the cards produced the FM sounds at the same time. I had a stereo mixer at that time, and I was able to recognize the sounds coming from both cards.

I would like to do more tests with the problematic games that you referred to as some games. Could you please name some games? Currently I have my Pentium II with CT1740, AWE64 Gold, MQX-32 and a SB Live! in it.

I have experiences similar behaviour. That is: FM sound coming out of two cards 😀

The AWE64 Gold does allow you to change the address of FM. Handy if you want to turn the card into a dedicated MPU401 + joystick interface for whatever reason.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I have experiences similar behaviour. That is: FM sound coming out of two cards 😀.

That is how it works, if you put 6 cards with OPL3 on the bus then FM sound is playing on 6 cards...
Every card that 'hears' at the ports takes over the written data.

The ISA OPLSAx cards have an INI option which is something like OPL3=off (on by default), which I assumed turns the OPL3 function... off. This is the only card I have running along side a second ISA sound card (a SB Pro 2.0), and I just assumed that this works, but I really should test that.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I have experiences similar behaviour. That is: FM sound coming out of two cards 😀

This is usually true, but try System Shock with two Sound Blaster Pro CT1600 cards installed. One at A220 I7 D1 and the other at A240 I5 D3.
- Music -> SB Pro --> Stereo FM at one soundcard (OPL3 mode accessed at I/O range 220-223)
- Music -> Adlib ---> Mono FM at both cards (OPL2 mode accessed at I/O range 388-389)

Some soundcards have OPL3 mode at I/O range 388-38B too, but I don't think SB Pro is one of them. This game does not support it anyways.