VOGONS


SB16 vs DBs (hanging / stuck / wrong notes in MIDI)

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First post, by retro games 100

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No way! How can this be?! I thought the CT17xx models were immune to this wretched problem! Argh!!! 😠

I'm sick of these damn Creative cards! Please can someone recommend a SB16 alternative? I need something that can do "16 bit soundblaster" sound effects, and also has a wavetable header. I don't care about funky onboard wavetable music - I've got other cards that can handle that. But I do need a card which can still be found fairly easily on ebay.

Thanks very much people. 😀

Edit - this CT1750 has DSP 4.12 Presumably that version is "evil" ?

mod edit (swaaye) - tweaked topic title for focus as sticky.

Reply 1 of 215, by keropi

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wow... really?
have you thought about getting a SB PRO 2.0 and a SCC-1 card? you would have SB sounds (not 44,1khz though but I see no real need for that) and excellent GM support. (plus since the scc-1 is a real roland mpu401 too, you could get a cm-32L later to add lapc-i playback)
I have 2 of those 1740's that I use ATM, I thought they where OK

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Reply 2 of 215, by Amigaz

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retro games 100 wrote:

No way! How can this be?! I thought the CT17xx models were immune to this wretched problem! Argh!!! 😠

I'm sick of these damn Creative cards! Please can someone recommend a SB16 alternative? I need something that can do "16 bit soundblaster" sound effects, and also has a wavetable header. I don't care about funky onboard wavetable music - I've got other cards that can handle that. But I do need a card which can still be found fairly easily on ebay.

Thanks very much people. 😀

Edit - this CT1750 has DSP 4.12 Presumably that version is "evil" ?

My CT1750 has the same DSP version 🙁
The safest bet is the CT1740 or CT1770 which are the earliest SB16 models but they look almost identical to the CT1750 which has a Sony CD interface If I'm not mistaken...

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Reply 3 of 215, by retro games 100

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@keropi,

You're right, the SB PRO 2.0 and SCC-1 cards provide very good sfx & tunes. 😀 (I just wanted to mess about with a CT1750 card!)

@Amigaz,

Regarding the CT1770, do you know if you can disable its SCSI port, to reclaim any 'lost' IRQ it may consume?

Thanks guys! 😀

Reply 4 of 215, by keropi

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so the 1740 is a "simple" card, the 1750 adds more cd interfaces and the 1770 adds scsi-2... but yet they have different components regarding the SB part? I only have 1740's so far...

edit: the 1740 I have in my K6-II machine has a 4.05 DSP... how can I quickly check for the hanging note bug? (I also have there a DB50XG daughterboard) I never really bothered before with this bug... 😅

Reply 5 of 215, by Amigaz

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retro games 100 wrote:

@keropi,

You're right, the SB PRO 2.0 and SCC-1 cards provide very good sfx & tunes. 😀 (I just wanted to mess about with a CT1750 card!)

@Amigaz,

Regarding the CT1770, do you know if you can disable its SCSI port, to reclaim any 'lost' IRQ it may consume?

Thanks guys! 😀

Yess...just remove the jumper(s) that assign an IRQ for the SCSI port

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Reply 6 of 215, by Amigaz

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keropi wrote:

so the 1740 is a "simple" card, the 1750 adds more cd interfaces and the 1770 adds scsi-2... but yet they have different components regarding the SB part? I only have 1740's so far...

edit: the 1740 I have in my K6-II machine has a 4.05 DSP... how can I quickly check for the hanging note bug? (I also have there a DB50XG daughterboard) I never really bothered before with this bug... 😅

Just run Hexen with Hexen.exe warp 02 and see if you get a hanging note after a while 😀
It seems you get it quicker with this special command line option than running the game as normal...don't ask me why 😉

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Reply 7 of 215, by retro games 100

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Amigaz wrote:
keropi wrote:

so the 1740 is a "simple" card, the 1750 adds more cd interfaces and the 1770 adds scsi-2... but yet they have different components regarding the SB part? I only have 1740's so far...

edit: the 1740 I have in my K6-II machine has a 4.05 DSP... how can I quickly check for the hanging note bug? (I also have there a DB50XG daughterboard) I never really bothered before with this bug... 😅

Just run Hexen with Hexen.exe warp 02 and see if you get a hanging note after a while 😀
It seems you get it quicker with this special command line option than running the game as normal...don't ask me why 😉

Hehe, I've heard that squealing sound at least 20 times today, using the (in)famous "hexen.exe -warp 02" command line test. It's beginning to give me a headache!

Reply 8 of 215, by Silent Loon

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Try to get a Yamaha SW60XG, if you have an ISA slot left:

web.archive.org/web/19971015162949/http ... m#WhatIsIt

Combined with a SB16 CT2800 you have GM, SB16 and a true OPL3. No hanging notes bug.

Reply 9 of 215, by keropi

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but if you have a seperate GM card there would be no hang notes?! or do they also appear on FM synthesis too?

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Reply 10 of 215, by retro games 100

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@Silent Loon,

I was hoping to avoid using another ISA slot, and instead to use a sound effects card with a wavetable header.

@keropi,

Have you tried the "hexen -warp 02" command line test using your CT1740 + DB50XG? You can use the freely downloadable Hexen demo for this purpose.

Reply 11 of 215, by 5u3

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Just to clear things up:
The SB MIDI hanging notes bug occurs on all DSP versions except 4.05 and 4.16. It affects devices connected to the waveblaster connector or via the joystick port MIDI interface.
Also, the bug only shows up when SB digital sound is used at the same time. Other MIDI interfaces in the same machine or the FM synth are not affected.

Reply 12 of 215, by retro games 100

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5u3 wrote:

Just to clear things up:
The SB MIDI hanging notes bug occurs on all DSP versions except 4.05 and 4.16. It affects devices connected to the waveblaster connector or via the joystick port MIDI interface.
Also, the bug only shows up when SB digital sound is used at the same time. Other MIDI interfaces in the same machine or the FM synth are not affected.

Thanks a lot for clearing things up 5u3.

keropi, your CT1740 should be just fine! 😀 (As you have DSP 4.05)

5u3, you mentioned a while back that your SB AWE32 CT3980 behaved rather well, and only got "stuck" once in 2 years of operation. I presume the card's DSP is not 4.05 or 4.16, and yet it seems to be almost immune to the problem. Cool! 😎

Reply 13 of 215, by elfuego

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retro games 100 wrote:
5u3 wrote:

5u3, you mentioned a while back that your SB AWE32 CT3980 behaved rather well, and only got "stuck" once in 2 years of operation. I presume the card's DSP is not 4.05 or 4.16, and yet it seems to be almost immune to the problem. Cool! 😎

I also have AWE32 3980 and it does behave rather well, but it's not immune to this bug. Example is "Realms of Arcania 1: Blade of Destiny". It so bad in that game, that I dare say the game is better off with FM synth.

Reply 14 of 215, by keropi

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so blades of destiny is more "sensitive" ? that is good, because I got it last year from eBay, I will also test it 😀

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Reply 15 of 215, by retro games 100

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I also got "Realms of Arcania 1: Blade of Destiny" from ebay - I think it was a trilogy games pack actually. There were the first 2 "RoA" games on CD1 and the 3rd game on CD2. The next time I dig out a CT3980 for some more testing, "BoD" is the first game I will test with it.

Reply 16 of 215, by 5u3

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retro games 100 wrote:

5u3, you mentioned a while back that your SB AWE32 CT3980 behaved rather well, and only got "stuck" once in 2 years of operation. I presume the card's DSP is not 4.05 or 4.16, and yet it seems to be almost immune to the problem. Cool! 😎

Yes, my CT3980 has a 4.13 DSP and the hanging notes bug almost never shows up. But this is just coincidence. I've got reports from people with an identical CT3980 where the bug occurs more often.

I will try out DSA1 on my "magic" CT3980 🤣

[EDIT:] Just installed my german shovelware Realms of Arkania version: It has trouble with more than 16MB RAM, plays music from CD and comes with a VERY annoying copy protection doc check. I'm off to get some copy from the net...

Reply 17 of 215, by elfuego

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5u3 wrote:

[EDIT:] Just installed my german shovelware Realms of Arkania version: It has trouble with more than 16MB RAM, plays music from CD and comes with a VERY annoying copy protection doc check. I'm off to get some copy from the net...

Hahaha 😁

Listen, you use Win 98, right? DSA trilogy works awesome under windows. So just use what's offered inside! Limit the amount of RAM the game sees to 4MB, give it some DOS memory and it will run like a charm.

And I never, ever heard of a RoA 1 (Schicksaalklinge) version with CD music. Are you sure you aren't trying Shadows over Riva (Schatten ueber Riva) or Star trail? I would bet you just tried Star trail couse I remember those doc checks 😀

BTW, Blade of Destiny (RoA 1)is abandonware, just as Star Trail (RoA 2) and they can be found on home of the underdogs. Shadows over Riva (RoA 3) is still being sold.

Edit: as for the dox check - there is a patch for it, but you can also download the whole manual w/codes from the underdogs.

Reply 19 of 215, by elfuego

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retro games 100 wrote:

elfuego, unfortunately, HOTU is no longer available. 🙁

Damn... I just noticed 🙁 Thats really sad. HOTU was always my main DOS-games source.

Anyone knows any other similar sites?