Well the USB Boot was a huge success! Works just like I expected...

Tried a few games on my netbook. All the new ones run fine, like Blood and Duke Nukem 3D. Even at 800 x 600 and super smooth 😀

Just need to add a mouse driver (machine will have to have a PS/2 port I guess) and I'm good to go to test these new sound cards when they arrive...

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Well the USB boot flash drive was a peace of cake! That HP tool is awesome. It can even do Fat16 if you want Dos 6.22 with 2 GB max. storage.

After firing it up again, I remembered that was the one... definitely a cool and handy little utility 😀

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

But if you have a big fat USB stick go with Fat32 and W95B or W98.

One advantage of W98SE's DOS is that it does a bit better with memory management; usually resulting in more free converntional memory (after all of your DOS drivers are loaded), as well as usually more high memory (to load them DOS drivers).

My flash drive's CONFIG.SYS:

1DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
2DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF RAM
3DOS=HIGH,UMB,AUTO
4FILES=30
5BUFFERS=15,0
6STACKS=9,128
7DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:CDROM001

...and my flash drive's AUTOEXEC.BAT:

1@ECHO OFF
2SET PATH=C:\;C:\DOS;C:\FED;C:\NC;C:\NE;C:\NU;C:\PKZIP;C:\SBLIVE;C:\TEMP
3SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
4SET TMP=C:\TEMP
5SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6
6SET CTSYN=C:\SBLIVE
7PROMPT [MS DOS] $P$G
8LH SBEINIT.COM
9LH MSCDEX.EXE /D:CDROM001 /V
10LH SMARTDRV.EXE /F /V 16384 16384
11LH DOSKEY.COM /INSERT
12LH CTMOUSE.EXE

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I haven't figured out how to remove the W98 boot/splash screen

For your MSDOS.SYS file in the root of the drive:

ATTRIB MSDOS.SYS -H

(to remove the hidden attribute)

...and then edit/add this to the MSDOS.SYS file:

1[Options]
2Logo=0

...and lastly:

ATTRIB MSDOS.SYS +H

(to add the hidden attribute)

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Just need to add a mouse driver (machine will have to have a PS/2 port I guess) and I'm good to go to test these new sound cards when they arrive...

Attached is my fav mouse driver, "Cute Mouse" (CTMOUSE.EXE)... supports PS2 as well as serial (standard or non-standard ports), and takes very little memory 😀

Very similar 😀

@ECHO OFF SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 SET CTSYN=C:\DOSDRV C:\DOSDRV\SBEINIT.COM LH C:\DOSKEY.COM LH C:\MSCDEX.EXE /D:CDROM001 […]
Show full quote

@ECHO OFF
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330
SET CTSYN=C:\DOSDRV
C:\DOSDRV\SBEINIT.COM
LH C:\DOSKEY.COM
LH C:\MSCDEX.EXE /D:CDROM001 /L:E
LH C:\DRIVERS\CTMOUSE\CTMOUSE.EXE /R22

DEVICE=C:\HIMEM.SYS DEVICE=C:\EMM386.EXE DOS=HIGH,UMB DEVICEHIGH C:\DRIVERS\CDROM\CDROMDRV.SYS /D:CDROM001 […]
Show full quote

DEVICE=C:\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\EMM386.EXE
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICEHIGH C:\DRIVERS\CDROM\CDROMDRV.SYS /D:CDROM001

I did that MSDOS.SYS line, but got some registry corruption message so I undid it again. The disk works, so all is well.

Pretty happy with the results. Duke Nukem 3D in 800 x 600 is quite something. Such a fun game. The key layout sucks a bit, need to get my head around that and adjust it...

Also I got a Audigy LS in my sights which I will pickup next week 😀 Hoping it works with this driver

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I did that MSDOS.SYS line, but got some registry corruption message so I undid it again. The disk works, so all is well.

Hmm... that's strange. Especially since if you're booting to native DOS, the Windows registry isn't used (and shouldn't be on the flash drive in the first place). Maybe you're missing another entry in your MSDOS.SYS file.

Here's my complete one on my bootable flash drive:

1[Options]
2BootGUI=0
3DisableLog=1
4Logo=0

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Pretty happy with the results. Duke Nukem 3D in 800 x 600 is quite something. Such a fun game. The key layout sucks a bit, need to get my head around that and adjust it...

Hehe, attached is afile you might find useful <grin> 😀

Wow thats... HARDCORE 🤣

800x600? Edit your duke3d.cfg and go for something higher 😀 (like.....1600x1200!!!)

Also, hearing the "FM emulation" of AudioPCI can be hilarious with Dune II. Also, try it with Rise of the Triad... on Adlib mode for the sound effects. Try Wolf3D also.

Lol I solved my problem with cdaudio. The cause was something I never thought about before...the mpc cable!!! I tried to change it with another I had from an old broken drive and voila, it worked. I can now hear audio tracks sound. The guilty cable seems intact but it did not work. weird.

Ps: better use general midi, at least in my setup ensoniq soundscape and even more the sound blaster pro emulation music sounds like s**t

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Wow thats... HARDCORE 🤣

'Tis the way I've been playing FPS PC games for decades 😀 Almost all FPS games have the same style/type of controls and inventory (e.g. Medpack in Duke3D, Whiskey in Redneck Rampage, etc...), hence my good old Duke3D setup can be adapted to almost any FPS. I use similar setups for Unreal, DOOM, Dark Forces, and the like 😀

Hehe, back in the day; when swapping emails with Todd Replogle, even he was impressed by my non-standard mouse/keyboard setup for Duke3D <LOL>!

leileilol wrote:

800x600? Edit your duke3d.cfg and go for something higher 😀 (like.....1600x1200!!!)

Oh wow!

I didn't know that was possible!

Try Wolf3D also

Tested (see first page). Sound is perfect, FM music is *shudder*

Ok the USB boot disk works great on my netbook but has issues on my desktop.

I think it's related to 4 GB of RAM...

Only himem.sys works great. I can play the games, but of course the sound drivers need EMS.

When I use EMS I get a error message but the sound drivers still load but then the games complain (e.g. Duke3D complains about not enough memory (X MIN)

And in Doom the controlls go spastic after I changed them around. It's as if some keys just get stuck... I tested on my Celeron 300 and it's fine (same mouse driver). I will try making the USB flash drive again using FreeDOS files. Maybe it makes a difference?

EDIT: They keyboard issue was related to USB. Using a PS/2 keyboard and all is good!

The USB mouse works great however (with CTMOUSE)

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I think it's related to 4 GB of RAM...

Prolly is. Those memory managers were coded well before that much RAM was *even affordable* by anyone other than 'ole Billy G. <LOL>!

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

EDIT: They keyboard issue was related to USB. Using a PS/2 keyboard and all is good!

Sort of OT, but nonetheless:

On one of my other PCs I used to have a USB keyboard, in addition to a standard keyboard, connected all the time. My nephew and I used to play multiplayer races with freeware arcade racing game "GeneRally", and two people on the same keyboard was fairly cramped... hence the two keyboards <grin> 😀

(edit) Ya know, I've really lost track of some of the info in this thread <LOL>! What OS are you running?

IIRC you said W98SE. If so, Duke3D/DOOM/Wolf3D/etc... (as do most DOS games) all work quite well shelled out of W98SE on most PCs, negating the need to boot to DOS.

I myself keep the bootable flash drive handy simply for testing various things out under DOS and/or FAT32, as I'm running WXP Pro on this PC (and I mostly use DOSBox to run the old stuff on this one).

I do have another slow W98SE PC in operation, but that's a different matter alltogether: for my MasterPilot Programmer (that craps out on any PC with a bus speed higher than 100MHZ), as well as to house my old Wave Blaster (1) 😀

I have to machines.

One is a Slot 1 PC, currently with a Celeron 300. I have a 4GB CF card with W98SE and a 2GB CF card with Dos 6.22 which I can swap. And there is another 2GB CF card in the machine with games, demos, drivers and other stuff.

I use this machine for testing anything that doesn't seem/sound right under DOSBox or on my Desktop. I also use it to record Sound Cards and midi modules and just to muck around...

My main PC is a Phenom II quadcore which I have W7 64 and DOSBox running. I also use it to see if I get PCI sound and games going. For that I use a 4GB Flash drive with a boot disk using W98SE boot disk files.

I haven't tried removing one of the memory sticks, it might just work with 2 GB.

The current Asus board allows me lower the FSB to 100 and the multi to 4, so the Phenom II runs at 400 MHz. In 3DBENCH2 that gives me roughly the speed of a K6-2 500 MHz.

I had a Asrock Board before which allowed me to set the multi to 0.5 and gave me a 100MHz Phenom II which did end up giving me around 100 fps in 3DBENCH2 (Pentium 120 roughly) but on that board the AudioPCI wouldn't work so that's why I am getting a Live 5.1 and Audigy SE and hoping they will work.

EDIT: foubnd this document: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/75592

Using the NOEMS switch worked. But just like the Asrock board, the AudioPCI is a no go on the Asus board...

Well I got my Audigy SE today.

Card works fine under W98SE. Drivers from the Creative site installed just fine. Card also works in a DOS window from inside W98.

However no luck with the DOS drivers...

I used PCI Sniffer to get the address (E400) and IRQ (10) and changed the ini file but no luck.

I'm getting this message:

error: PCI device detect failed; Device not found.
PCI audio driver NOT loading

I won't do any more mucking around until I get the live! 5.1 card. Because maybe the Audigy SE doesn't support DOS drivers (hoping that this is the case...)

Mau1wurf1977 I suggest to try with other versions of the dos drivers. My sbpci128 didn't work with sbpci128 drivers (an error message like your audigy card, even after messing with ini file in the same way as you did). After trying a lot of drivers I discovered creative released my card with the same name (sound blaster pci 128) but different sound chips. Maybe they did the same with audigy, they release some audigy with a chip and some others with different revisions.

However imho these ensoniq chip based cards are not ideal for retrogaming. Opl emulation sounds like s**t, gravis ultrasound and mt32 mode are not much better. General midi output is beautiful but there are few games that work well with these cards, a lot of static/strange sounds, horrible music rendition and pc crashes here and there.

Hopefully you'll have better luck with your SBLive. Like I replied previously, I found the DOS drivers for mine (somewhere) here at Vogons.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I used PCI Sniffer to get the address (E400) and IRQ (10) and changed the ini file but no luck.

Mine is set for IRQ12. But, to tell the truth, I really don't remember how I originally determined the address and IRQ for mine.

FWIW I've attached the drivers that I use for mine (minus the ECW wavesets). FYI, the only reason that I used "CT4780" in the filename of the ZIP, is that, at least for me, they work for mine.

The driver should be able to find the card's resources by itself.

It sounds like there are multiple revisions/editions of the Creative DOS driver and that some versions simply don't recognize some card device IDs.

I imagine that this driver could be made to work with just about any PCI sound chip if we had the source code for it. I really doubt that it uses any hardware features beyond just piping data through the DAC.

Thanks for all the input guys!

Reading Wikipedia again, I just saw that the Audigy SE doesn't have the EMU10k2 chip. It seems to be a stripped down value card or something like that...

I will try to find a download for the installation CD and see if it comes with DOS drivers. And then I allways have the Live! 5.1 underway. Hoping that this card "just works"...

However imho these ensoniq chip based cards are not ideal for retrogaming. Opl emulation sounds like s**t, gravis ultrasound and mt32 mode are not much better.

This is just another "option" I would like to investigate. I got a Retro PC with ISA slots, Sound Blasters and Roland Midi stuff. But there is just something really cool about playing Duke Nukem on a current modern PC with uber smooth frames.

It still amazes me that Doom, Blood and Duke Nukem 3D have no issue running on a Phenom II. Even the Vesa 2.0 modes "just work" 🤣 but without any sound and music it's quite a dry experience...

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Reading Wikipedia again, I just saw that the Audigy SE doesn't have the EMU10k2 chip. It seems to be a stripped down value card or something like that...

That sucks, as without any form of EMU chip the sound card couldn't use soundfonts 🙁

Actually there is a software synth that Creative uses with some of their cards that can load soundfonts. One product I know it's used with is the Audigy 2 Notebook because that has no MIDI hardware. (I have one of them) It works ok but you can't load really huge soundfonts (>100MB or so) with it.