swaaye wrote:

Actually there is a software synth that Creative uses with some of their cards that can load soundfonts. One product I know it's used with is the Audigy 2 Notebook because that has no MIDI hardware. (I have one of them) It works ok but you can't load really huge soundfonts (>100MB or so) with it.

Thanks for the info, I never knew that before; that CLI had a softsynth that could use soundfonts.

All of their softsynths that I'm familar with is the current one with my SBLive (that uses the ECW wavesets), as well as one that used to come with their older ISA cards "Creative WaveGuide".

IMHO it sounded pretty bad, and was originally developed by Seer Systems (based on their "Reality" softsynth engine IIRC). It came with a 5MB waveset (which in theory, should be able to reproduce some semi-decent sound), but was "dry" as a bone... no reverb or chorus effects.

Any idea of who develped the one that you're refering to? Sounds quite interesting.

Speaking of softsynths in general, I'm sure we're all familar with the Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth... which IMHO; puke, gag, hack, etc... 🤣!

But, just today I realized that I could apply some (or rather, A *LOT* of) SBLive EAX reverb to it (unlike the Creative SW Synth that uses the ECW wavesets, you can't use any reverb with that one at all, so's it's real "dry sounding), and the MS synth actually sounds fairly nice. Of course though, I could always load the regular GM.DLS into my SBLive (via the SoundFont control panel), which would allow the EMU to supply/generate the MIDI reverb (verses setting the WinDoZe default MIDI playback device to the MS GS softsynth), but I like twiddling with stuff <grin>.

Heh, with the SBLive reverb it sounds quite similar to the old Roland SC-55 😀

[now I'm reminiscing here]

I remember back in the day absolutely drooling over the MP3 demos that I heard from the Roland SC-88 Pro... but that was WAY out of the budget at the time. This was back when I was using my AWE32(s) with the usual 8MBGM.SF2 that I had purchased on CD.

[fast-forward to today]

Heh, with my current rig, and my latest version of my "Weeds" SoundFont and SBLive, I can give that SC-88 Pro a run for it's money <grin> 😀

(edit) 'Nuther OT ramble, copy 'n' paste from this thread -> flight sim recommendation :

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Funny you should mention Falcon 3.0, as just yesterday I was fooling around with my F3 Gold CD (I have the Gold CD, as well as the floppy versions of F3/Mig-29/Hornet)... hadn't fired that one up in EONS (used to play it on my old 286).

Of F3 notable mention, the core program and flight dynamics were the same that the US military used for their full-motion F-16 simulators back in the day... they used a modified version of F3 to power the simulators.

Heh, what got me to messing around with F3 again:

I recently installed the MUNT Windows driver, and had remembered that F3 natively supported the Roland MT-32 for it's sound effects and music playback. Back in the day I (and still today) I had a Wave Blaster (1); which could be configured to simulate the MT-32 as far as the MIDI music instrument mappings.

Of course though, the WB didn't support all of the special sysex dumps that the MT-32 did, which F3 used to make the sound effects in the game sound proper with the MT-32 (jet engine sound, missle firing, target lock, etc...).

On a WB configured as an MT-32 the music sounded fine, but the sound effects were all WHACKED (strange Piano sounds for machine gun firing, weird Cello sounds for the jet engine sound effects, etc... <LOL>!). Hence, even though I had a decent wavetable daughterboard back in the day, I could NOT use it for F3... had to settle for Adlib within the game; so that the sound effects sounded proper, but the Adlib music was piss-poor (as I was used to my WB for most games' music that supported General MIDI).

Enter MUNT:

I installed the MUNT Windows driver, installed F3 Gold, and fired the game up in DOSBox... the music was great, and the MT-32 sound effects were perfect 😀 Gotta say too, the F3 soundtrack when played on an MT-32 was quite an impressive thing as well 😀
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Anyhow, enough rambling <grin>...

Regarding the Creative softsynth, the device name for it is "Creative Soundfont Synth". I don't know anything about it beyond that it does work well enough for DOSBOX games. I think it might be installed even with some cards that have MIDI hardware. It has been awhile since I've used/seen it though.

BTW, I really have to check out your soundfont. 😁

swaaye wrote:

Regarding the Creative softsynth, the device name for it is "Creative Soundfont Synth". I don't know anything about it beyond that it does work well enough for DOSBOX games. I think it might be installed even with some cards that have MIDI hardware. It has been awhile since I've used/seen it though.

Thanks for the info 😀 I'll have to Google up some info on it, sounds real interesting.

swaaye wrote:

BTW, I really have to check out your soundfont. 😁

I've got rave reviews about it over the past months, I think you'll like it 😀

BTW, I've recently upped the MIDI files to one of my servers that were originally included with the Roland SC-88 Pro. These demo MIDI files really show off the soundfont.

Also, I'm gonna upload the MIDIs from Warcraft 2 as well (with more EMU8k/EMU10K/EMU20K NRPN reverb added), they sound GREAT with the soundfont, and really show it off too 😀

Anyhoo, the SC-88 MIDIs here -> http://www.cmoo.com/snor/weeds/SoundFonts/Rol … _MIDI_Files.zip

For some audio demos of the soundfont in action, surf to my web page here -> http://www.richnagel.net , and scroll down to the "MP3 Previews" and "YouTube Previews" sections.

Lastly, the "Album title track" MP3 link near the top of the page was also recorded using the soundfont.

I found a download for the "Creative SoundFont Synthesizer" from Dell's site -> ftp://ftp.us.dell.com/audio/R116061.EXE . I didn't want to install it on my current rig (didn't wanna mess up any of my current SBLive drivers and custom MIDI devices/drivers that I have installed on it, so's I tried intalling it on another PC that didn't have a Creative sound card.

As I figured, it wouldn't install on that one. Prolly similar to Creative's "WaveGuide" or "WaveSynth", that needs to find a true Creative sound card in the PC in order to be installed.

P.S. FWIW, In some of the files included with the download I found the text "Creative Labs Integrated Sound Blaster Audigy ADVANCED HD Audio Driver".

I used an SB PCI128 (early Creative derivative of the Ensoniq PCI design) and then an SB Live! with native DOS and Win98 in my old PII-450 in the late 1990s. I was pretty disappointed overall with the DOS side of the experience, although they were the only cards I used that could do some kind of wavetable MIDI in native DOS (just not very good, and they both used Creative-relabeled Ensoniq drivers with those mediocre ECW patch sets). The only thing I remember that impressed me about those cards in native DOS was that they somehow supported streaming CD audio tracks over the ISA bus so that you didn't have to run an audio cable between your CD-ROM drive and the sound card (of course, noone does that any more, but the feature was pretty new at the time even in Win98).

I've had real Roland synths from eBay for over 5 years now that work fine with DOSBox, so I haven't had to mess with any of that stuff for a long time. I did have to grit my teeth and give Creative some money at the beginning of this year to get a new USB MIDI adapter because the stupid M-Audio one I had lacked 64-bit Vista/Win7 drivers (ha! looks like M-Audio finally released some around 2 weeks ago, after YEARS of dragging their feet! oh well).

A little contribution for this thread. Here's a video clip of Star Wars X-Wing(floppy disk edition) played using the AdLib sound option on a SoundBlaster Vibra128, which is based off the Ensoniq AudioPCI and sounds absolutely terrible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXObHZEY8u4

Ace wrote:

A little contribution for this thread. Here's a video clip of Star Wars X-Wing(floppy disk edition) played using the AdLib sound option on a SoundBlaster Vibra128, which is based off the Ensoniq AudioPCI and sounds absolutely terrible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXObHZEY8u4

That was dreadful! I heard some pipe organ notes especially near the end, sounds like it was trying to match OPL parameters to wavetable MIDI instruments or something.

You're 100% correct that Creative rebranded Ensoniq's DOS drivers and used them at least through their SB Live series of PCI audio cards.

Even the SoundBlaster Live!'s absolutely dreadful emulated YMF262 sounds better than the "simulated FM Synthesis" of the SoundBlaster Vibra128 and other Ensoniq AudioPCI-based SoundBlaster sound cards. OPL2 sounds like complete crap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYsQbD33vtg

But OPL3 actually sounds decent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5z8FjUlwd8

Whereas the SoundBlaster Vibra128 sounds like complete crap both with OPL2 and OPL3 and fails miserably at reproducing the sounds of OPL2 and OPL3 FM Synthesis with the Ensoniq wavetable. I'll upload the Collector's CD-ROM edition of X-Wing played using my SoundBlaster Vibra128 soon. It sounds just as bad, if not worse than the floppy disk edition.

I recorded the nasty spew of a Soundscape's OPL3 emulation the other day but I deleted it because it was so terrible that the disgust overwhelmed me before I could even save the file. 😀

Most of the time it sounds just bizarre and nauseating but there were brief moments of "hey this is an interesting enhanced FM". Very brief moments of that though.

Ouch. Usually, I keep those recordings and post them on the Internet so people know just how bad a certain sound card can sound. That's why I even recorded the sound produced by my SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 and my SoundBlaster Vibra128. Now you have me curious as to just how bad the SoundScape's OPL3 sounds like. Does it sound like a horribly-emulated YMF262 or fake FM Synthesis done through a wavetable?

It does the FM thru wavetable deal. Maybe I'll record it, special for you. 😀 I can get one of those cards going in no time because the driver is still on the HDD.

I'm sure emulating an OPL3 chip in software was totally out of the question in the Soundscape days. CPUs were way too slow. They could only count on a 486 being in the PC and the PC has more to do than just emulate FM.

Agreed. I'm pretty sure that every sound card that was made back in the days when the 486 was the fastest CPU available either made use of a real YMF262, a cloned YMF262, a real YMF262 integrated within an ASIC, a cloned YMF262 integrated within an ASIC, or like Ensoniq did: simulate FM Synthesis using a wavetable, which is complete crap. By the time the SoundBlaster Live! came out, were CPUs fast enough to emulate the YMF262?

Say, what do C-Media sound cards use as a YMF262? The real thing, a clone or an emulated YMF262(not discrete, as there's a single chip on C-Media sound cards like the CMI8738)? I'm leaning more towards the real thing, as the sound is exactly like a real YMF262, or maybe it's a YMF262 emulated so well it sounds just like the real thing.

Ace wrote:

By the time the SoundBlaster Live! came out, were CPUs fast enough to emulate the YMF262?

Probably to the level of what the SBLive DOS driver does. A reduced accuracy rendition of it.

DOSBOX does a pretty decent OPL3 but it is taxing on older PCs trying to play DOSBOX.

Ace wrote:

Say, what do C-Media sound cards use as a YMF262? The real thing, a clone or an emulated YMF262(not discrete, as there's a single chip on C-Media sound cards like the CMI8738)?

I dunno. I haven't used them much.

retro games 100 wrote:

Also, for the original Ensoniq AudioPCI, it comes with a software driver package that works well in Windows 95. The model to look out for is AudioPCI 3000, I think - it's definitely the one without Creative written on the chip. I trawled ebay and google images, but I can't find the exact one that I liked the most at the moment, but it's appearance is distinctive - it's got 3 small coloured strips next to the output jacks. (Not the output jack plug sockets themselves.)

Found one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt … em=290508299112

Original / first post updated!

I have now also uploaded Ensoniqs drivers with easy to use instructions and example AUTOEXEC.BAT.

You will also find some recordings examples...

I understand that I am bumping a very old thread here, BUT! This topic seems to be the Definitive Resource on vogons for information about this card / family. I've been doing a bit of Internet research on this card and would like to present my findings... both for interest from a DOS/Windows user's perspective, but also as a possible method to enhance the Linux ALSA driver to support missing features.

There are three main chips which power this card set. The theory of operation is similar between them.
ES1370: Hardware-based MIDI synth using wavetable from system RAM. Hardware OPL-3 emulation which fakes (badly) AdLib compatibility using wavetable. Hardware-based SoundBlaster emulation which traps requests on the SoundBlaster port and forwards appropriately. CODEC chip implementing HK4531, output at 44.1khz.
ES1371: Same as ES1370, except CODEC chip implements AC'97 instead, output at 48khz.
ES1373: Just like an ES1371, with the addition of switchable S/PDIF output instead of I2S In.

I know little about ES1370 and have no cards with this chip. Let's start instead with a datasheet for the ES1373, the most recent chip powering AudioPCI.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/datasheets/es1373.pdf

Here are specs from Creative for an "AudioPCI 128", with my notes in BOLD of how this is actually accomplished.

Digitized Sounds
• Sound Blaster 16 compatible uses LEGACY block to trap SoundBlaster IRQ calls and translate to... ???)
• AC97 CODEC supporting stereo sampling 48kHz (Fixed); Multiple sample rate support 48khz is the ultimate output frequency. There is an on-board sample-rate-converter which can translate lower-rate sources to the proper output value. The driver should set the proper registers and the conversion is thus handled automatically
• Recording source: microphone, stereo line-in, CD-audio, video, modem, or multiple source recording Multiple-source means "any combination of the previous". The backplate of the card has plugs for microphone and stereo line-in - all others are headers soldered to the card for internal PC connection. I2S should also be a recording source as well, but is not mentioned on this card specs.
• PCI Bus Master for fast DMA you can enable or disable this if you like
• Up to 128 simultaneous voice polyphony Talking about MIDI polyphony here.
• Full genuine DOS Game Compatibility ...using a TSR, but we all know how this works.
• 3 stereo inputs and 2 mono inputs can be mixed into the output stream see above: "stereo" inputs = line-in, CD-audio, video. Mono inputs = microphone, modem header. No mention of I2S again.
• Direct I/O space access of the control registers true
• 100 Pin PQFP or TQFP A funny thing to specify on the box! This is just the size of the chip, nothing more.
• External S/PDIF Connector ...depending on card and if your manufacturer opted for its inclusion, but yes, this functionality is on the chip along with a few control registers to set the parameters.
• Fully Compliant with PC99 Power Management specification No clue if the driver actually uses this for anything, but parts of the chip can be put into power-save mode and cut a few mW.

Synthesized Music
• 128 Voice WaveTable Synthesizer This is the interesting bit for me, and it appears that the chip DOES actually have an on-board MIDI wavetable synth. The waveset must be loaded to RAM somewhere and the location passed in. No idea in what format the bank should be loaded so that the synth can actually use it.

Communications Interface
Telephone Answering Device (TAD) Interface
• Telephone Answering Device for modem connection. Allows a single microphone and stereo speaker set to be used for both voice modem and sound card audio applications (message recording and playback, speakerphone, etc.) Links your modem to a header on the soundcard, such that you can use one of those dialer programs to use the modem like a phone handset.

Audio Mixer
• Output mixing of all audio sources: Digitized sounds, synthesized music, line-in, CD-audio, TV tuner, microphone. Indeed! Each source can be individually switched on/off as being routed back to the output channels. Hardware monitoring with a latency of 1 sample, instead of asking the PC to do it.
• Input mixing sources: Synthesized music, microphone, Aux-in, CD audio. BUT - thre is only one stereo ADC channel. It is unclear whether you must pick one source or may select multiple to sample from.
• Multiple source recording and L/R channels may be swapped or mixed. So you perhaps can turn on capture from microphone and cd-audio at once, so your karaoke masterpiece is preserved in one wav file.
• 6 channel mixer for access to digitized sound, synthesized music, microphone, CD-audio, line-in Just a standard AC'97 function which lets you adjust the volume individually of each portion.
• Spatial audio control for digital audio and music synthesizer Now THIS is the part that I am struggling with. The chip datasheet mentions no way to actually make use of this, thus I think it must be something to do with the CODEC chip used. I believe it is a 3D Audio effect enabled by banging the AC'97 register 0x22, "3d Control".
• Reverb and chorus control for music synthesizer which probably means the MIDI synth responds to CC messages 91 and 93, possibly by translating them to AC'97 register codes, or the MIDI synth pre-applies these before passing the PCM to the AC'97 mixer?

MIDI Interface
• MPU-401 UART Advanced Wave Table Synthesis using .ECW files
• Creative Advanced Synthesis Engine Yeah whatever
• 128 voice polyphony and multi-timbral capability
• 128 GM wavetable instruments in all of 2mb, 4mb, and 8mb files
• GS sound set + 10 drum kits in 4 & 8 MB sample sets must not have fit in 2mb ecw
• 16 MIDI channels Better than 10, yes?
• 128 MT-32 compatible instruments in some ecw file
• Digital effects engine for reverb, chorus and spatial-sound Here it is again, this time claiming spatial-sound for MIDI too, which suggests that it just uses the AC'97 codec to turn on 3d sound.
• 2MB, 4MB, & 8MB sample sets Yes, again.

Sampling Subsystem
• Host memory support in other words, steals your PC's ram to hold the sound banks
• Virtually unlimited variations of sound except you never gave us an editor. ECW format has its own limitations, notably samples are 22khz

3D Audio Technology
• Supports EAX How?? Above, we have no claim that Reverb / Chorus are available to digital sound, only to the MIDI synth. The closest we can get is 3d positional using AC'97 switch.
• Multi-algorithm Reverb and Chorus ...for all sources, or just MIDI synth?
• Supports Microsoft’s DirectSound 3D Two separate stereo output channels permits quadraphonic sound output. DirectSound3D likely preprocesses these to determine which speaker to play on.
• Supports Aureal A3D API Now we're just getting silly. This all sounds like sneaky driver tricks to fake it using a very, very limited set of real effects.
• Improves sound clarity, spatial realism and sound effects, through the minimization of crosstalk Marketing BS
• Dynamically adjusts for monophonic or stereophonic input without user intervention In other words, a mono source is output to both L+R, not L only.

Joystick Port
• Standard PC joystick port for 1 or 2 joysticks. Doubles as a MIDI port. Joystick port has an interesting register allowing you to switch the timing (ISA or Fast), and the data sheet has this funny line about the bits used to move the joystick to another address: "These two bits are dedicated to Dave Sowa and will map the joystick port to 4 different base addresses as follows:"

SPDIF Interface
• 2-channel digital audio interface if card has the hardware. ES1371 lacks this.
• Output connector to a DAC receiver (i.e. digital speakers) if card has this

Inputs and Outputs
• Stereo 2W/channel power amplifier Main output
• Line In stereo
• Line Out/SPDIF Out (SPDIF Out optional) Interestingly this doubles as the second output channel, for use with quadraphonic sound, and autodetects which one you're trying to use
• Microphone In mono
• CD In stereo
• TAD mono
• TV Tuner Uh... just another header on the card, I guess. This may actually replace one of the other sources on cards that have it.
• Joystick/MIDI see above

A few interesting links for your consideration.

* http://www.ronybc.com/ak4531-es1370.php
Replace the Op-Amp with a much better one (and further hacks)

* http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=11995
"Also keep in mind that by today's standards the AudioPCI's DSP processor is a real lightweight so expect higher CPU usage than with your SBLive. EAX compatibility is also acheived via software so expect a MAJOR performance hit and possibly some 'bugs' when enabling it. However, the AudioPCI's MIDI quality and 2/4/8meg soundsets are pretty damn good (anyway, who but electronic musicians bother with MIDI anymore?)."

* http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=960760
"If you mean EAX hardware acceleration (3d sound), the PCI 128 has none - it only has software emulation."

VOGONS wiki says the card has "software" MIDI, but I don't yet believe it...

Hornpipe2 wrote:

Communications Interface
Telephone Answering Device (TAD) Interface
• Telephone Answering Device for modem connection. Allows a single microphone and stereo speaker set to be used for both voice modem and sound card audio applications (message recording and playback, speakerphone, etc.) Links your modem to a header on the soundcard, such that you can use one of those dialer programs to use the modem like a phone handset.

...Wow, really?

Is this a common thing on sound cards? I've not heard of this before, and yet it's exactly the sort of thing I've been pining for. Does it really work? (Should I take this to another thread?)

My Creative SB PCI128 was re-branded Ensoniq hardware, and it definitely had EAX and 3D sound support of some kind - but that may have been implemented by Creative in their version of the drivers.

It also had wavetable MIDI (which was probably software), but I think it only supported some Ensoniq-specific format that limited the selection to just a few wavetable files (most of which were just different quality GM/GS sets meant for cards with different capacities or computers with different amounts of RAM).

Honestly, the only PCI sound cards worth looking at are Aureal's stuff and the Creative SB Live! and Audigy series. After that I'd go straight for a PCIe Xonar series card, or an ISA card if it's for a retro box that doesn't need to run newer Win9x stuff.

If anyone manages to get the MIDI interface (joystick port) going under DOS please let us know because it supports Intelligent mode in the same way like all Ensoniq cards.