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What is the best General MIDI synth for DOS games?

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Reply 104 of 130, by rfnagel

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Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Cute 🤣

Heh, funny thing is (per one of my previous messages), the MSGSSW synth uses that Roland "GM.DLS" file, which is essentially a sample dump of the onboard ROM of a Roland SC-55.

Hehe, hence, I have what could be considered a "handheld SC-55" <LOL>! (minus MIDI ins and outs though <grin>)

Wish I could figure out some way to play the MIDI files without renaming them to ".MP3" though... according to a PDF manual that I downloaded from Samsung's web site, it indeed is suppose to be able to play (recognize) MIDI files, but I'll be damned if I can figure out how to make the phone do so. They don't even show up in the "Music Player" app that's on the phone... that is, unless I rename them to ".MP3" (?).

(re: XG games) I asked the same question over in this thread -> Yamaha S-YXG50 and DB50XG about the S-YXG50 and DB50XG. BTW, from what I've heard, FF7 ships with an older version of the S-YXG50.

Rich ¥Weeds¥ Nagel
http://www.richnagel.net

Reply 105 of 130, by rfnagel

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Heh, found a bit more info on the phone's wavetable synthesis. The phone is either using (not sure which) Qualcomm's "CMX" compatable chip MSM6050, or a MSM6100.

MSM6050: 32-note polyphony, 128 instruments, GM1 compatable, MIDI formats 0 and 1 supported, 44.1k 16-bit samples (same as the previously mentioned Roland soundset file "GM.DLS").

MSM6050: 64-note polyphony, 128 instruments, GM1 and GM2 compatable, MIDI formats 0 and 1 supported, 44.1k 16-bit samples (same as the previously mentioned Roland soundset file "GM.DLS").

Couldn't dig up any definate proof that it was using the Roland "GM.DLS" soundset file, but like I posted previously, the sound is *identical* to the MSGS wavetable synthesizer 😀

Rich ¥Weeds¥ Nagel
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Reply 108 of 130, by fooziex

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I have a Yamaha MU-80, as I wanted I try something out of the ordinary. To my ear, it sounds good, and I appreciate it having an input with effects, so that I can put some reverb on MT-32 and SB/GUS sounds. There's also up 4 (reverb, chorus, various, distortion) effects applicable to the MIDI music. If anyone is interested I could probably record and upload a sample of a chosen game's General MIDI music.

Reply 109 of 130, by wocko1

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I have a Yamaha MU-80, as I wanted I try something out of the ordinary. To my ear, it sounds good, and I appreciate it having an input with effects, so that I can put some reverb on MT-32 and SB/GUS sounds. There's also up 4 (reverb, chorus, various, distortion) effects applicable to the MIDI music. If anyone is interested I could probably record and upload a sample of a chosen game's General MIDI music.

Well then, would I be able to please hear what the Quest for Glory IV: Shadows of Darkness intro, and also the first level of Stonekeep sounds like on the MU-80? I can compare it to my SC-55mkII. Both of which are General MIDI games and not MT-32 games.

One interesting thing I do notice about the MU-80 is it supports the LCD display show commands that the SC-55 supports, as when you play STARGAME.MID on it.

Reply 110 of 130, by fooziex

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wocko1 wrote:

I have a Yamaha MU-80, as I wanted I try something out of the ordinary. To my ear, it sounds good, and I appreciate it having an input with effects, so that I can put some reverb on MT-32 and SB/GUS sounds. There's also up 4 (reverb, chorus, various, distortion) effects applicable to the MIDI music. If anyone is interested I could probably record and upload a sample of a chosen game's General MIDI music.

Well then, would I be able to please hear what the Quest for Glory IV: Shadows of Darkness intro, and also the first level of Stonekeep sounds like on the MU-80? I can compare it to my SC-55mkII. Both of which are General MIDI games and not MT-32 games.

One interesting thing I do notice about the MU-80 is it supports the LCD display show commands that the SC-55 supports, as when you play STARGAME.MID on it.

I'll try to record those and upload the results sometime tomorrow. The only game that I've noticed using the MU-80 display in my (admittedly limited) experiments was Lands of Lore 1.

Reply 111 of 130, by fooziex

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Here are the Stonekeep and Quest for Glory 4 MP3s recorded from my MU80. I encoded them at a fairly low bitrate as I thought the 5mb attachment size limit was per-post.

Edit: Also attached the MU80 demo track, "Out of the Muse."
Edit again: I replaced a recording of the QFG4 title track. QFG4 sends a GM-on SysEx when it starts, which annoyingly turns the MU80 into TG300 mode and resets all effects, instruments, etc. While I thought I had avoided this in the other recordings, after finding a setting to prevent the "GM System On" SysEx from having an effect (it's in the menu, also F0 431049 000003 00 F7), the music does sound a bit different on the new recording. I'm just replacing the recording that was supposed to have effects, since I can't tell if there's a difference in the instruments themselves.

Attachments

  • Filename
    QFG4-Title_(real_effects).mp3
    File size
    3.08 MiB
    Downloads
    335 downloads
    File comment
    Quest for Glory 4 - Title song, with effects (reverb, chorus, variation) certainly enabled.
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    Yamaha-Out_of_the_Muse_(MU80_demo).mp3
    File size
    2.55 MiB
    Downloads
    283 downloads
    File comment
    Yamaha MU80 demo track, "Out of the Muse."
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    SK-Start_(effects).mp3
    File size
    2.54 MiB
    Downloads
    268 downloads
    File comment
    Stonekeep - Level 1, with effects (reverb, chorus, variation) enabled.
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    SK-Start_(no_effects).mp3
    File size
    2.47 MiB
    Downloads
    263 downloads
    File comment
    Stonekeep - Level 1, with no effects.
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    QFG4-Title_(no_effects).mp3
    File size
    3.04 MiB
    Downloads
    285 downloads
    File comment
    Quest for Glory 4 - Title song, with no effects.
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 112 of 130, by rfnagel

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fooziex wrote:

Edit: Also attached the MU80 demo track, "Out of the Muse."

Would you happen to have the/a MIDI file of that tune?

Rich ¥Weeds¥ Nagel
http://www.richnagel.net

Reply 114 of 130, by rfnagel

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fooziex wrote:

I'm out of town right now, but when I get home, I'll see if I can record a MIDI of it.

Many thanks 😀

Rich ¥Weeds¥ Nagel
http://www.richnagel.net

Reply 115 of 130, by wocko1

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fooziex wrote:

Here are the Stonekeep and Quest for Glory 4 MP3s recorded from my MU80. I encoded them at a fairly low bitrate as I thought the 5mb attachment size limit was per-post.

Edit: Also attached the MU80 demo track, "Out of the Muse."
Edit again: I replaced a recording of the QFG4 title track. QFG4 sends a GM-on SysEx when it starts, which annoyingly turns the MU80 into TG300 mode and resets all effects, instruments, etc. While I thought I had avoided this in the other recordings, after finding a setting to prevent the "GM System On" SysEx from having an effect (it's in the menu, also F0 431049 000003 00 F7), the music does sound a bit different on the new recording. I'm just replacing the recording that was supposed to have effects, since I can't tell if there's a difference in the instruments themselves.

Well the MU80, QFG4 sounds pretty good, but Stonekeep, why is there so many reverse cymbals at the start? I don't get that on my Sound Canvas. Is Stonekeep sending some wierd Sysex like QFG4 was, or does the synth have to be in either GM or XG mode?

Also, how does the first level of Descent sound on your MU80? It doesn't sound that great on my SC-55mkII, but I did hear that XG synths, it sounds awesome. Is it possible to get a sample of the first level of Descent 1?

Thanks heaps! I'm considering getting an MU80 if it goes well.

Also, would you like me to send you a sample of my SC-55mkII playing these same tunes?

Reply 116 of 130, by fooziex

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wocko1 wrote:
Well the MU80, QFG4 sounds pretty good, but Stonekeep, why is there so many reverse cymbals at the start? I don't get that on my […]
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fooziex wrote:

Here are the Stonekeep and Quest for Glory 4 MP3s recorded from my MU80. I encoded them at a fairly low bitrate as I thought the 5mb attachment size limit was per-post.

Edit: Also attached the MU80 demo track, "Out of the Muse."
Edit again: I replaced a recording of the QFG4 title track. QFG4 sends a GM-on SysEx when it starts, which annoyingly turns the MU80 into TG300 mode and resets all effects, instruments, etc. While I thought I had avoided this in the other recordings, after finding a setting to prevent the "GM System On" SysEx from having an effect (it's in the menu, also F0 431049 000003 00 F7), the music does sound a bit different on the new recording. I'm just replacing the recording that was supposed to have effects, since I can't tell if there's a difference in the instruments themselves.

Well the MU80, QFG4 sounds pretty good, but Stonekeep, why is there so many reverse cymbals at the start? I don't get that on my Sound Canvas. Is Stonekeep sending some wierd Sysex like QFG4 was, or does the synth have to be in either GM or XG mode?

Also, how does the first level of Descent sound on your MU80? It doesn't sound that great on my SC-55mkII, but I did hear that XG synths, it sounds awesome. Is it possible to get a sample of the first level of Descent 1?

Thanks heaps! I'm considering getting an MU80 if it goes well.

Also, would you like me to send you a sample of my SC-55mkII playing these same tunes?

Just got back so I haven't gotten a chance to do much gaming / computer stuff, but I'll record the Descent song sometime this weekend. Do you want the title song, or the first level? I'm not sure about Stonekeep; when I get everything hooked back up for recording Descent I'll do some comparisons. I'd appreciate it if you could upload at least the Stonekeep track so I can hear what you mean.

Kinda off topic, but I found two old analog "drum brains" for $100 total while on my trip: Tama Techstar TS206 and TS306. Haven't gotten a chance to try them out, as I don't have a drum pad/trigger, but I've read that they can be converted to use MIDI.

Reply 117 of 130, by wocko1

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fooziex wrote:

Just got back so I haven't gotten a chance to do much gaming / computer stuff, but I'll record the Descent song sometime this weekend. Do you want the title song, or the first level? I'm not sure about Stonekeep; when I get everything hooked back up for recording Descent I'll do some comparisons. I'd appreciate it if you could upload at least the Stonekeep track so I can hear what you mean.

Kinda off topic, but I found two old analog "drum brains" for $100 total while on my trip: Tama Techstar TS206 and TS306. Haven't gotten a chance to try them out, as I don't have a drum pad/trigger, but I've read that they can be converted to use MIDI.

Well I've just uploaded an MP3 of my SC-55mkII playing the music from first level of Stonekeep. 😉 I did mean the first level of Descent by the way. Descent really doesn't sound that great on my SC-55mkII, even AdLib sounds better.

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Reply 118 of 130, by fooziex

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After comparing your recording to mine, I loaded up Stonekeep and, bizarrely, there are no more reverse cymbals. I can't imagine what could cause such a discrepancy. I even did a factory reset on my MU80 to see if maybe it was something I changed, with no effect (still no reverse cymbals). I'll do some more experiments, and then re-record Stonekeep sans cymbals and Descent level 1.

Edit:
I tried changing the music driver from General MIDI to Roland GS in Stonekeep to see if perhaps that was involved, but they both sound the same to me (both lack the reverse cymbals). Attached are the new recording of Stonekeep and a recording of Descent level 1. If you get a chance, could you also upload a recording of Descent level 1? I'd like to hear why people are always saying it sounds so awful on Sound Canvas gear.

Attachments

  • Filename
    Descent-Level_1.mp3
    File size
    4.26 MiB
    Downloads
    297 downloads
    File comment
    Descent level 1 on Yamaha MU80.
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    SK-Start_(again).mp3
    File size
    2.34 MiB
    Downloads
    227 downloads
    File comment
    Stonekeep, now without the reverse cymbals for whatever reason.
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 119 of 130, by wocko1

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I do have to say that Stonekeep sounds pretty good now that there are no more reverse cymbals, so I'm guessing that some other game must have thrown out your MU-80's mapping, because sometimes that happens to my SC-55mkII too. But Descent sounds AMAZING on the MU-80 and some how I really think Yamaha's strength is more in electronic style music, where the SC-55(mkII) is better for more orchestrated music.

I was going to upload a sample of Descent on my SC-55mkII last night but I was occupied with my girlfriend. I should be able to send you up a sample tonight, though!

By the way, I bought myself an MU-80!!! 😁 It should arrive next week.