Interesting, it was because of that particular thread;..I was trying to play the midi file you posted there when I noticed this:

Yamaha DB50-XG low volume on windows 98

So you're all saying that you really can't have no more than one synth for GM?

I get conflicting reports about Roland Sound Canvas synths being the bees knees, same with Yamaha XG based synths, and creative wave blasters.

I already own an SC-55mkII, and it's been going great so far, Quest for Glory IV and Stonekeep really seems to show it off! But are they any other great synths for the games, and yes, I prefer ones that are NOT ISA cards, due to the fact that working with ISA is a pain in the arse, plus I really don't want to buy USB to ISA converters. Nor do I really want to build an old piece of junk 286/386/486/Pentium 1/2/3.

Synths I got or planned so far
* Roland MT-100 Sequencer/Synth
* Roland Sound Canvas SC-55mkII
* Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS Soundfont Synth
* Roland MT-32 OLD (planned)

Maybe you have noticed for yourself that there is no real *best* synth. It heavily depends on the game and your personal taste. To get some impression I would advice you to check out some of the recordings from swaayes page.

Since ISA is no option for you, the simplest approach would be using Dosbox and Roland Virtual Sound Canvas. So you won't have to hassle with any retro hardware.

BTW, dunno if it was mentioned previously in this thread:

I had always read that the Microsoft GS Wavetable Software Synthesizer (you know, the one that ships with WinDoZe) sounded extremely close to a Roland SC-55. This due to it using that 16-bit Roland "GM.DLS" (that also came with Windows), which is supposedly a converted (?) dump of the SC-55's sample ROM.

Anyhoo, I had a listen to DOOM's E1M1 music from Swaaye's page (took me a while... damned miserable dialup connection). It sounds almost *identical* when I played DOOM's original (converted) MIDI file using the MS softsynth. Quite interesting indeed.

(re: the Roland Virtual Sound Canvas)

IMHO, that thing really stinks. I downloaded and installed the latest/last version of the RVSC (I think it was version 3.0) a while back, and being that 3.0 supposedly superceded the older RVSC-88; the measly 3.?MB sound bank that it comes with doesn't do the Roland SC-88 (or SC-55) any justice whatsoever.

@wocko1, Anyhoo, I prolly said it before (can't really remember); but if you have an Audigy 2, that along with a decent soundfont (such as my custom one -> Weeds General MIDI SoundFont v3.0 , or any soundfonts mentioned within this thread -> AWE64 with 32 (28 really) MB of RAM ) will surely sound *extremely* nice for anything General MIDI compatable 😀 Surf to my web page at http://home.earthlink.net/~richnagel/#mp3 , and hear how that Audigy can/could sound 😀

Now, mind you, it can't do things like an MT-32 or Yamaha XG hardware, but for GM (on a fast PC running DOSBox) you're golden.

I've been wondering about using a softsynth like Timidity or Fluid on Windows to play with soundfonts, but it looks like possibly only one of those has a Windows port and it's not really usable out of the box.

HunterZ wrote:

I've been wondering about using a softsynth like Timidity or Fluid on Windows to play with soundfonts, but it looks like possibly only one of those has a Windows port and it's not really usable out of the box.

Fluidsynth can be obtained with Qsynth:
http://qsynth.sourceforge.net/qsynth-index.html
Actually I don't use the Qsynth wrapper, just took out the fluidsynth binairy that is included.

This topic may be of interest concerning Timidity and Fluid :
Midi music using soundfonts

I believe we need to distinguish between authentic sound and "best" sound.

"Best" is very subjective and people have different tastes. On a game to game basis it's possible to find a combination of synth, soundfont and settings which sound better than the original. E.g. that Doom recording with the soundfont on a AWE64 really impressed me and sounded like GM 2.0 for lack of better words.

But as far as authenticity goes, I don't think you can go wrong with a Sound Canvas. It's what most of the composers used to compose and balance GM music.

I'm happy with my Roland because I see them as the reference for DOS games that use GM. I like to play with the other cards though, because it's fun and exciting. But at the end of they, when I actually play the games I just use my Roland gear.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I believe we need to distinguish between authentic sound and "best" sound.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I myself am always looking for "as real as it gets"... in other words, I want a string section to actually *sound* like a string section, and I want a french horn to *sound* like a french horn, etc...

I want to be able to compose and/or playback (playback in PC games as well), and the leader/director of the band says "HEY! Where did you find those musicians?!" <grin> 😀

Realism is what I'm after; not retro sound (so to speak).

I should have said authentic Retro sound 🤣

The thing with all these sound options is I just can't decide. There are so many cards, so many games, so many options (Reverb, Chorus, 3D) and you end up playing more with the music than the actual games.

This quest for "best" just never seems to end 🤣

Maybe that's why I like the Roland stuff so much. I can just focus on playing the games and not having to worry about "how it sounds". It's the same reason why I do like Creative cards.

Sure others might sound "better" to some, but Creative and Roland products give me something really important: Peace of mind. That feeling that "it's all good". Something I need as a restless perfectionist 🤣

Well when I said "best", I meant authenticity, not sound quality. I wanted my games to sound like the creators intended it. If I wanted excellent quality, I would probably buy something like a Roland Fantom XR, but then again, they cost an arm, a leg and your first born child.

So what do you reckon? Would all these synths be best for *all* dos games for authenticity

* Roland SC-55mk2
* Roland MT-100
* Roland MT-32 (OLD)
* Yamaha MU-50
* Roland CM-500
* SB AWE32

Or are you thinking, "OVERKILL"?

The CM-500 will cost you an arm and a leg and you already have an MT-32 and a Sound Canvas. So it's a bid redundant. Anything interesting about that Yamaha synth?

The Soundblasters are all cheap. Opinions also vary but seeing you have a dedicated MIDI card for your Roland gear, any of the Soundblasters will do just fine. An AWE64 GOLD is very good for speech / digital effects card. It's PnP and you can disable all the resourced you don't need (MIDI port, joystick...).

If you want authentic FM sound as well, I recommend any Soundblaster with a genuine Yamaha OPL chip. That rules out the AWE64s and many of the AWE32s and SB16s. A Soundblaster Pro 2 is guaranteed to have OPL3, with SB16s and AWE32s you need to look for specific model numbers (and I don't know them).

Creative Labs cards are also as authentic as it gets. They are also compatible and you won't have any issues. If a game does give you issues it's usually speed related (your PC). Disabling the internal cache or patching the game (if there is one) usually fix this. Sometimes it's just a bug (e.g. Alone in the Dark Soundblaster Pro option).

My take on Soundblaster clones. Back in the day when I was young and green, nobody bought a clone card because they sounded "better". They bought one because they where cheaper and couldn't afford a Creative card. Old games where quite fickle and often you got got burnt when some game didn't work properly. I had my share of clone cards back in the day.

My worst purchase was a SPEA MEDIA FX. I blieve it used a wavetable set from Ensoniq (not sure on that htough). I got raped big time. I fell for the "MT-32 compatible" line and Soundblaster support was not very good. I had issues with many games (Privateer I remember quite clearly).

I sold it and got a SB16 Basic and a Soundcanvas wavetable card. I had no idea about "hanging note" issues back in the day and I never noticed it to be honest. I was quite surprised when I heard about this issue later 🤣

Since I wanted an all-around solution, my retroPC's are equiped with:

p200mmx: old SB16 with real OPL + DB50-XG and a LAPC-I
386sx: SB1.5 + CMS chips + MPU401-AT/DB60-XG and an external CM-32L

more or less I pretty much cover all interesting configs , I might not have some dual OPL chips or a better-sound-quality SB but I have realized you just can't have everything 🤣

Great setup!

That 386 is awesome! Cyrix 386 > 486 chip isn't it?

Hmm the only thing I might change is to put the LAPC-I in to the 386 seeing that there aren't many General MIDI Games for 386 machines.

And the Pentium gets the MPU401AT with Yamaha DB and CM-32-L to cover all your bases. That way you also don't get any hanging note bugs on the Pentium...

Just a suggestion though! Great setup as it is!

PS: Who needs Dual OPL when you have CMS power! 🤣

@Mau1wurf1977:
yeah it's the "upgraded" 486slc2 IBM machine, I just can't say what cpu-era it belongs.... not a 386sx more like a 386DX 🤣
the specific SB16 on my p200mmx does not have the hanging notes bug... I want the internal LAPC-I because of the place I have setup this machine... and external unit of any kind is just cluttering the place... so far things work great, but I do have faced problems with games that insist on p330 for GM and don't bother to check the SB variable... what's worse they don't even allow the user to select ports, a total fail IMHO. Luckily some (hex)editing later all is well 🤣

Okido!

Yea your machine scores 13.3 fps in 3dbench. That's a fast 386DX-33 right there!

Hehe, just aquired an old mobile phone (with no cell service, I DON'T have a cell phone <grin>).

The phone is a Samsung SCH-r600, and can play MP3s/videos/take pics/etc... I knew that it had some sort of onboard wavetable, as it can use MIDIs (as well as MP3s) for ringtones. You can play MP3s easily, but not MIDIs unless you download them from Samsung's "web store".

Heh, I discovered I could rename some MIDIs to ".MP3", copy them to the phone's microSD card, and play them using it's onboard wavetable synthesis <grin>.

Now... I was playing the DOOM and DOOM II MIDIs and though, Man, that sounds faimilar (re: my recent experimenting with the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synthesizer on my PC). Well, the phone's wavetavle is a DEAD RINGER for the MSGS wavetable synth, Samsung must use a version of it (along with the Roland "GM.DLS" sound bank) for this model of phone <grin>.

Cute 🤣

Is it true that some games like Final Fantasy 7 were designed for Yamaha synths? That's why I asked about the Yamaha MU series being a good one for the synths

I've also got an MT-32 (old) coming on the way too.

I have one of these NEC Yamaha clone cards underway. FF7 is something I will definitely want to test.

I doubt there are many games however. I was even surprised to hear about this one game 🤣

FF7 was designed for whatever they used on the original PSX, but the PC port does come with both GM and XG MIDI soundtracks.