Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby matze79 » 2019-4-25 @ 09:49

It can also playback MIDI on 9x.

Midi Drivers and SID Player are avaible.
And maybe some other Software..

I`m not sure if support for hardsid can be coexist on a ssi-2001 card so ssi-2001 and hardsid software can be used.

EDIT:
Found Project URL Again:
http://hardsid.8m.net/
Attachments
isa_sid_bottom.png
https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de
matze79
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: 2014-12-12 @ 14:25
Location: Germany, Frankonia

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby elianda » 2019-4-25 @ 10:06

Could you elaborate a bit what the HardSID does differently compared to the DuoSID to accomplish better compatibility to timing critical C64 replay routines?
I don't see the gain.

I mean would that be even possible with the SID connected through ISA bus or would it require to move the C64 emulation core to the card itself?

The application idea was to use such a card to record C64 tunes correctly with a convenient PC application such as ACID 64 Player.
Retronn.de - Vintage Hardware Gallery, Drivers, Guides, Videos. Now with file search
Youtube Channel
FTP Server - Driver Archive and more
DVI2PCIe alignment and 2D image quality measurement tool
User avatar
elianda
l33t
 
Posts: 2363
Joined: 2006-4-21 @ 16:56
Location: Halle / Germany

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2019-4-25 @ 12:42

elianda wrote:Though I got a question how timing precise your card is. There are quite a few songs on the C64 that play samples or use oscillator feedback to produce reverb effects. For these the timing of the writes and reads is critical to produce the correct output.

Can you provide something to test on DuoSID? *.SID file that I can playback on DuoSID via three existing players? Or native *.EXE DOS program that will write to 0x280 +0x01C ports which represent all SID registers?
I can run test and show timings on logic analyzer and record produced sound.

elianda wrote:On C64 the CPU and SID run on the same clock, how close can you get with the ISA card?

SID on DuoSID can be clocked as 0.895M, 0.985M, 1.000M, 1.023M (and many more variants), ISA bus can run faster I think. At least ~5 MHz if I'm not mistaken. And speed also depends on CPU speed of the machine.
The other thing is DuoSID contains ready/wait circuit from SSI-2001 that prolongs ISA access cycle for some time.

matze79 wrote:The SSI-2001 never was meant to resemble the C64 Soundsystem on PC.
If you want this you can build yourself a HardSID ISA.

HardSID uses totally different address method. You have to, first, write address to the board, than you have to write data to the board. So it has to take two ISA write cycles for one SID write instead of one ISA write (or read) cycle on DuoSID.
User avatar
Fagear
Member
 
Posts: 249
Joined: 2014-7-10 @ 22:27
Location: Russia, Moscow

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby matze79 » 2019-4-25 @ 14:41

HardSID is supported directly by ACID64 Player.

ISA Bus will run on 7.68Mhz on AT Machines, or faster depending on ATCLK Setting in BIOS.
Up to 16Mhz depending on Configuration and Cards ( not many will work at this clock..)
https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de
matze79
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: 2014-12-12 @ 14:25
Location: Germany, Frankonia

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby elianda » 2019-4-25 @ 14:45

Fagear wrote:
elianda wrote:Though I got a question how timing precise your card is. There are quite a few songs on the C64 that play samples or use oscillator feedback to produce reverb effects. For these the timing of the writes and reads is critical to produce the correct output.

Can you provide something to test on DuoSID? *.SID file that I can playback on DuoSID via three existing players? Or native *.EXE DOS program that will write to 0x280 +0x01C ports which represent all SID registers?
I can run test and show timings on logic analyzer and record produced sound.


Ok, try this: Deep Kiss (Revision Cut) by LMan: https://csdb.dk/release/download.php?id=217847 (as .SID)
https://csdb.dk/release/download.php?id=217846 (as .PRG)

Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d20DxzdOkkc
Retronn.de - Vintage Hardware Gallery, Drivers, Guides, Videos. Now with file search
Youtube Channel
FTP Server - Driver Archive and more
DVI2PCIe alignment and 2D image quality measurement tool
User avatar
elianda
l33t
 
Posts: 2363
Joined: 2006-4-21 @ 16:56
Location: Halle / Germany

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby shock__ » 2019-4-25 @ 21:47

Transplanting a SID to another plattform while maintaining full compatibility with the C64 is not a trivial task, which is why the HardSID has had a number of revisions, outsourcing a ton of work to a custom chip or software emulation. Take a look at this (supposedly) fully compatible hardware solution for the ZX Spectrum (which is basically half a C64): http://zxbyte.ru/index_en.php?id=7
User avatar
shock__
Oldbie
 
Posts: 984
Joined: 2010-12-22 @ 01:53
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2019-4-25 @ 23:51

elianda wrote:Ok, try this: Deep Kiss (Revision Cut) by LMan: https://csdb.dk/release/download.php?id=217847 (as .SID)
Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d20DxzdOkkc

Ok, Pentium-233 is definitely not enough to leverage playback of that SID :lol: : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAgSXiv4uh4
But K6-2+ @500MHz did the trick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeuzBPPsY2k

That is DuoSID with SwinSID on the left channel and real 8580R5 on the right. Clocked at 0.985 MHz.
Only one player was capable of playing "LMan - Deep Kiss" file... And that player really does not favor SwinSID, producing many glitches. Other player is more lightweight and produces good results with SwinSID... But it glitches both on SwinSID and 8580 on some files (that "background Pong" in "Edwin van Santen - Blackmail Tune 1"... :lol: ). Still there no perfect *.SID player for DuoSID/SSI-2001. :cry:
User avatar
Fagear
Member
 
Posts: 249
Joined: 2014-7-10 @ 22:27
Location: Russia, Moscow

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby matze79 » 2019-5-19 @ 10:22

ArmSID now also supports OPL2 Emulation.

https://www.retrocomp.cz/produkt?id=20

>ARM2SID is new TWO SIDs and SFX sound expander (OPL FM synthesis) emulator in one DIP28 socket size!

So it would be possible to decode additional address and add Adlib Support to the SSI %)
https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de
matze79
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: 2014-12-12 @ 14:25
Location: Germany, Frankonia

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2019-5-24 @ 21:40

Here you go!
DuoSID meets ARMSID(s). :cool:

IMG_8925.jpg
ARMSID
IMG_8917.jpg
ARMSID: STM32
IMG_8922.jpg
DuoSIDs: old and new


Did not test this config yet.
User avatar
Fagear
Member
 
Posts: 249
Joined: 2014-7-10 @ 22:27
Location: Russia, Moscow

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby matze79 » 2019-5-25 @ 19:05

Hehe nice :)
https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de
matze79
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: 2014-12-12 @ 14:25
Location: Germany, Frankonia

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby erek » 2019-7-07 @ 22:06

i wonder how many of these Innovation SSI 2001s really exist in the wild ?
erek
Newbie
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 2018-9-07 @ 17:59

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby derSammler » 2019-7-08 @ 08:17

erek wrote:i wonder how many of these Innovation SSI 2001s really exist in the wild ?

3 ;)
derSammler
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1858
Joined: 2017-4-14 @ 11:30
Location: Germany

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby shock__ » 2019-7-08 @ 15:07

erek wrote:i wonder how many of these Innovation SSI 2001s really exist in the wild ?
I'm currently aware of 2 (owned by people on this forum, being the one with the "sid 6581" written near the socket with a marker and the one with a 6581R4AR) and one being "semi-lost" (should be on loan to someone in this city ... but that info is 8+ years old, with no update since - being the card with all pads present on the slot connector).

My "guesstimate" would be that the card never was widespread and is likely one of the rarest PC soundcards that was ever professionally made in a very limited volume.
User avatar
shock__
Oldbie
 
Posts: 984
Joined: 2010-12-22 @ 01:53
Location: Berlin, Germany

Previous

Return to Sound

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests