RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2021-09-26, 13:57:

For anyone who wants to use a PCMCIA card like the Roland above, you can also use them in desktop PCs, via a PCMCIA-PCI adapter card. They don't really manufacture them anymore, but there are a lot of them out there in the wild of the online resellers.

Slightly incorrect but know what you mean. PCI-PCMCIA adapters exist which allow notebook cards to be used in desktops (not sure why you would with the vast choice of pci and isa cards)
Unfortunately PCMCIA-PCI (adapters for use in laptops to allow a PCI cards) do not exist.
Expensive laptop docking station type things do exist but are huge and expensive

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-26, 16:55:

Slightly incorrect but know what you mean. PCI-PCMCIA adapters exist which allow notebook cards to be used in desktops (not sure […]
Show full quote

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2021-09-26, 13:57:

For anyone who wants to use a PCMCIA card like the Roland above, you can also use them in desktop PCs, via a PCMCIA-PCI adapter card. They don't really manufacture them anymore, but there are a lot of them out there in the wild of the online resellers.

Slightly incorrect but know what you mean. PCI-PCMCIA adapters exist which allow notebook cards to be used in desktops (not sure why you would with the vast choice of pci and isa cards)
Unfortunately PCMCIA-PCI (adapters for use in laptops to allow a PCI cards) do not exist.
Expensive laptop docking station type things do exist but are huge and expensive

One theoretical reason to want a set-up like that is because the .WAVjammer is a PCMCIA card that has native support in a number of protected mode games. It would allow such games to have sound, even on systems without ISA slots.

I'm not sure if it would actually work with a PCI-PCMCIA adapter, though. Has anybody ever tried that?

digger wrote on 2021-09-26, 16:59:

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-26, 16:55:

Slightly incorrect but know what you mean. PCI-PCMCIA adapters exist which allow notebook cards to be used in desktops (not sure […]
Show full quote

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2021-09-26, 13:57:

For anyone who wants to use a PCMCIA card like the Roland above, you can also use them in desktop PCs, via a PCMCIA-PCI adapter card. They don't really manufacture them anymore, but there are a lot of them out there in the wild of the online resellers.

Slightly incorrect but know what you mean. PCI-PCMCIA adapters exist which allow notebook cards to be used in desktops (not sure why you would with the vast choice of pci and isa cards)
Unfortunately PCMCIA-PCI (adapters for use in laptops to allow a PCI cards) do not exist.
Expensive laptop docking station type things do exist but are huge and expensive

One theoretical reason to want a set-up like that is because the .WAVjammer is a PCMCIA card that has native support in a number of protected mode games. It would allow such games to have sound, even on systems without ISA slots.

I'm not sure if it would actually work with a PCI-PCMCIA adapter, though. Has anybody ever tried that?

I doubt it will work. I couldn't even get that elusive "native support" to work on equipment contemporary to wavjammer. Neither could the other vogoner in this thread.

Bondi wrote on 2021-09-26, 17:20:

digger wrote on 2021-09-26, 16:59:

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-26, 16:55:

Slightly incorrect but know what you mean. PCI-PCMCIA adapters exist which allow notebook cards to be used in desktops (not sure why you would with the vast choice of pci and isa cards)
Unfortunately PCMCIA-PCI (adapters for use in laptops to allow a PCI cards) do not exist.
Expensive laptop docking station type things do exist but are huge and expensive

One theoretical reason to want a set-up like that is because the .WAVjammer is a PCMCIA card that has native support in a number of protected mode games. It would allow such games to have sound, even on systems without ISA slots.

I'm not sure if it would actually work with a PCI-PCMCIA adapter, though. Has anybody ever tried that?

I doubt it will work. I couldn't even get that elusive "native support" to work on equipment contemporary to wavjammer. Neither could the other vogoner in this thread.

I would be happy to give it a shot with my win 98 laptop. Got another PCMCIA card working in windows but it didnt have dos or soundblaster compatibility unfortunately. Is still better for windows audio than the crappy maestro m3 on board sound

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-26, 16:55:

Unfortunately PCMCIA-PCI (adapters for use in laptops to allow a PCI cards) do not exist.

Those exist, look up for Magma CardBus to PCI enclosure.

lolo799 wrote on 2021-09-27, 09:56:

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-26, 16:55:

Unfortunately PCMCIA-PCI (adapters for use in laptops to allow a PCI cards) do not exist.

Those exist, look up for Magma CardBus to PCI enclosure.

Thanks
The only thing I can find for sale is this 1 slot expansion 'Magma 1 Slot PCI expansion chassis 01-04740-05'

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362917869066?hash= … QEAAOSws6ZaQk5D

Im not sure but this may not be PCMCIA to PCI (only PCI to PCI?)

This looks like what you mean, but not for sale - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/330847 … _bit_33MHz.html
This too, sold for £228 - https://reverb.com/item/25855943-magma-2-slot … sion-unit-36061

The issue then is what PCI soundcard supports DOS with OPL. There is the Soundblaster live but this has terrible emulation of OPL3 in DOS. The drivers for DOS do work though.
There was a Soundblaster 16 PCI version but it as rare as rocking horse poo and it also had no dedicated hardware for Adlib/OPL. It was emulated only so probably not much better than a Soundblaster Live! I also already have a SB Live card
There would be the need of space and PSU for the enclosure

Next questions which people here may know.

What is the best PCI soundcard (if there is one) that has dedicated OPL3 hardware instead of emulation? Why creative didnt include OPL3 hardware on the PCI cards is beyond me. I guess expense only, but it cant have cost much more to keep hardware support for DOS gaming

Does a PCMCIA to ISA enclosure exist? This would mean any card like a Soundblaster 16, AWE32, AWE64 etc. can be used on a laptop

I suppose my best option is keep looking for a good PCMCIA soundcard. Even a basic one that can be used for DOS only is good. With my current Maestro 3 drivers, nothing in DOS will even launch due to the WDM drivers. I did manage to install VXD drivers which allowed DOS apps to launch but then the Windows 98 support was messed up

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-27, 11:25:

lolo799 wrote on 2021-09-27, 09:56:

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-26, 16:55:

Unfortunately PCMCIA-PCI (adapters for use in laptops to allow a PCI cards) do not exist.

Those exist, look up for Magma CardBus to PCI enclosure.

What is the best PCI soundcard (if there is one) that has dedicated OPL3 hardware instead of emulation? Why creative didnt include OPL3 hardware on the PCI cards is beyond me. I guess expense only, but it cant have cost much more to keep hardware support for DOS gaming

PCI sound cards with one of the YMF7x4 chipsets have a genuine OPL3 synthesizer.

See this thread for more info: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

However, bear in mind that on more modern motherboards, particularly those with a PCI Express bus and legacy PCI slots connected through a PCIe-to-PCI bridge, PCI cards are not given access to any "legacy I/O addresses", meaning (if I remember correctly) any I/O addresses below 1000h. That includes the Adlib I/O addresses 388h and 389h. So my guess is that on such newer motherboards, the OPL3 chip would be addressable through some other higher (non-legacy) port.

With such newer motherboards, you'd need either patched Adlib drivers or a TSR (the latter only possible with real mode games) to trap those legacy ports and route any I/O to whatever ports your newer motherboard assigns to the OPL3 chip on a YMF7x4-based sound card.

(I'm going off of what I remember reading on various threads here on Vogons about this topic. Anybody else who has actually experimented with this, feel free to correct any inaccuracies or add any missing relevant details. Thanks.)

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-27, 11:25:

Thanks The only thing I can find for sale is this 1 slot expansion 'Magma 1 Slot PCI expansion chassis 01-04740-05' […]
Show full quote

Thanks
The only thing I can find for sale is this 1 slot expansion 'Magma 1 Slot PCI expansion chassis 01-04740-05'

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362917869066?hash= … QEAAOSws6ZaQk5D

Im not sure but this may not be PCMCIA to PCI (only PCI to PCI?)

This looks like what you mean, but not for sale - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/330847 … _bit_33MHz.html
This too, sold for £228 - https://reverb.com/item/25855943-magma-2-slot … sion-unit-36061

Magma made expansion enclosures of various sizes and interfaces for them, cardbus, expresscard, pci, pci-e.
I had a 1 slot half size pci case and the cardbus interface, no DOS drivers for it anyway.
https://youtu.be/7l-c00v1_3o

Does a PCMCIA to ISA enclosure exist? This would mean any card like a Soundblaster 16, AWE32, AWE64 etc. can be used on a laptop.

They probably exist too, in the industrial world.
http://www.interface.co.jp/catalog/prdc.asp?name=PCC-ISA08B

digger wrote on 2021-09-27, 11:40:

PCI sound cards with one of the YMF7x4 chipsets have a genuine OPL3 synthesizer. […]
Show full quote

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-27, 11:25:

lolo799 wrote on 2021-09-27, 09:56:

Those exist, look up for Magma CardBus to PCI enclosure.

What is the best PCI soundcard (if there is one) that has dedicated OPL3 hardware instead of emulation? Why creative didnt include OPL3 hardware on the PCI cards is beyond me. I guess expense only, but it cant have cost much more to keep hardware support for DOS gaming

PCI sound cards with one of the YMF7x4 chipsets have a genuine OPL3 synthesizer.

See this thread for more info: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

However, bear in mind that on more modern motherboards, particularly those with a PCI Express bus and legacy PCI slots connected through a PCIe-to-PCI bridge, PCI cards are not given access to any "legacy I/O addresses", meaning (if I remember correctly) any I/O addresses below 1000h. That includes the Adlib I/O addresses 388h and 389h. So my guess is that on such newer motherboards, the OPL3 chip would be addressable through some other higher (non-legacy) port.

With such newer motherboards, you'd need either patched Adlib drivers or a TSR (the latter only possible with real mode games) to trap those legacy ports and route any I/O to whatever ports your newer motherboard assigns to the OPL3 chip on a YMF7x4-based sound card.

(I'm going off of what I remember reading on various threads here on Vogons about this topic. Anybody else who has actually experimented with this, feel free to correct any inaccuracies or add any missing relevant details. Thanks.)

When you say modern motherboards, this would be used on a laptop (Dell Inspiron 8100 - Intel 815 Chipset) from 2001 with a PCMCIA to PCI interface.

lolo799 wrote on 2021-09-27, 12:41:

Magma made expansion enclosures of various sizes and interfaces for them, cardbus, expresscard, pci, pci-e. I had a 1 slot half […]
Show full quote

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-27, 11:25:

Thanks The only thing I can find for sale is this 1 slot expansion 'Magma 1 Slot PCI expansion chassis 01-04740-05' […]
Show full quote

Thanks
The only thing I can find for sale is this 1 slot expansion 'Magma 1 Slot PCI expansion chassis 01-04740-05'

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362917869066?hash= … QEAAOSws6ZaQk5D

Im not sure but this may not be PCMCIA to PCI (only PCI to PCI?)

This looks like what you mean, but not for sale - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/330847 … _bit_33MHz.html
This too, sold for £228 - https://reverb.com/item/25855943-magma-2-slot … sion-unit-36061

Magma made expansion enclosures of various sizes and interfaces for them, cardbus, expresscard, pci, pci-e.
I had a 1 slot half size pci case and the cardbus interface, no DOS drivers for it anyway.
https://youtu.be/7l-c00v1_3o

Does a PCMCIA to ISA enclosure exist? This would mean any card like a Soundblaster 16, AWE32, AWE64 etc. can be used on a laptop.

They probably exist too, in the industrial world.
http://www.interface.co.jp/catalog/prdc.asp?name=PCC-ISA08B

Nice find. If thats Japanese Yen, that's around £600. Also I expect quite hard to get hold of. 8 PCI slots might be a bit overkill and also cause conflicts galore 😁
I wonder if anyone has used one of these devices to go from PCMCIA to PCI, then from PCI to ISA using another adpater. This way all soundcards could be used on a laptop... I expect there would be numerous compatibility issues if anyone managed to get an ISA soundcard working through PCMCIA.

Maybe the ultimate goal for a hardcore retro sound person would be PCMCIA to PCI to ISA AWE 32 with DB50XG Wavetable header on the AWE32. My guess is it's never been attempted

You won't get DMA support going from PCI to ISA without SB-Link / PC-PCI which could be possible with some laptops but would also require soldering on the laptop motherboard at a minimum and would also require a PCI to ISA adapter that supports it as well and something like that was never sold as far as I know.

I do have a strange Cyrix branded PCI to 4x ISA adapter evaluation board that has PC-PCI support. I've never tested it though and from reading the documentation, I would have to write an initialization utility to even get it to work.

I also have a PCI to ISA setup with an external enclosure that the documentation for the chips say that it supports DMA bit the implementation I have doesn't support DMA.

The Magma adapters with the external enclosures are driverless so they should work on pretty much any system as long as you have the correct host card.

I do have multiples of these but they are really only going to be useful for DOS sound with cards that support ddma, dsdma or one of the other special implementations that doesn't require a PC-PCI hookup.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-09-27, 16:41:

You won't get DMA support going from PCI to ISA without SB-Link / PC-PCI which could be possible with some laptops but would also require soldering on the laptop motherboard at a minimum and would also require a PCI to ISA adapter that supports it as well and something like that was never sold as far as I know.

DMA is not needed for Adlib or OPL3 FM support, nor is it necessary to support 16-bit PCMCIA cards, since that standard doesn't even have DMA support. That's the reason why PCMCIA sound cards can't offer full Sound Blaster compatibility without some sort of software emulation. So PCMCIA cards should be able to work through PCI with an adapter, at least theoretically.

It's a shame no one has gotten the .WAVjammer te work natively with the games that advertise support for it, as Bondi mentioned.

But didn't IBM patent some advanced form of software emulation that worked even with protected mode games? If so, wouldn't an IBM PCMCIA sound card in a PCMCIA-to-PCI adapter be able to work on an ISA-less PC or laptop, using IBM's Sound Blaster emulation software?

If I'm not mistaken, PCMCIA sound cards from IBM didn't come with a native OPL2 or OPL3 FM synthesizer.

So the best of both world would be a newly created PCMCIA sound card that would be compatible with IBM's drivers and emulator, while at the same time also having an actual OPL3 synthesizer.

Right. OPL2/OPL3 is easy. Just the pesky digital stuff that is a pain.

At some point I should see if I could get my .WAVjammer to work with a PCI or ISA to PCMCIA adapter. In theory it should work just fine. It could also have to do with the PCMCIA controller. If I remember correctly, the documentation for the wavejammer mentions certain controllers it works with.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-09-27, 16:41:

The Magma adapters with the external enclosures are driverless so they should work on pretty much any system as long as you have the correct host card.

I do have multiples of these but they are really only going to be useful for DOS sound with cards that support ddma, dsdma or one of the other special implementations that doesn't require a PC-PCI hookup.

Why only useful for DOS sound? Couldnt a single Soundblaster Live! card be used in an external enclosure which works in Windows and has DOS emulation drivers - granted the DOS emulatio is quite poor, but at least it works.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-09-27, 20:08:

At some point I should see if I could get my .WAVjammer to work with a PCI or ISA to PCMCIA adapter. In theory it should work just fine. It could also have to do with the PCMCIA controller. If I remember correctly, the documentation for the wavejammer mentions certain controllers it works with.

Doesnt the Wavjammer just work if you connect it straight into a PCMCIA slot?

If the PCMCIA Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS SB0530 supported (even if forced to work) on windows 98 it would quite good.

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-27, 20:36:

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-09-27, 16:41:

The Magma adapters with the external enclosures are driverless so they should work on pretty much any system as long as you have the correct host card.

I do have multiples of these but they are really only going to be useful for DOS sound with cards that support ddma, dsdma or one of the other special implementations that doesn't require a PC-PCI hookup.

Why only useful for DOS sound? Couldnt a single Soundblaster Live! card be used in an external enclosure which works in Windows and has DOS emulation drivers - granted the DOS emulation is quite poor, but at least it works.

I didn't say it would only be useful for DOS sound... I was specifying what types of cards would be useful for DOS sound. And yeah, a Live! or Audigy/Audigy 2 has pretty poor DOS support. I like to use parts that actually work well for what I want to use them for. The Live and earlier Creative and Ensoniq PCI cards are not what I would call anywhere near good for DOS.

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-27, 20:36:

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-09-27, 20:08:

At some point I should see if I could get my .WAVjammer to work with a PCI or ISA to PCMCIA adapter. In theory it should work just fine. It could also have to do with the PCMCIA controller. If I remember correctly, the documentation for the wavejammer mentions certain controllers it works with.

Doesn't the Wavjammer just work if you connect it straight into a PCMCIA slot?

If the PCMCIA Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS SB0530 supported (even if forced to work) on windows 98 it would quite good.

Nope, the Wavjammer requires the appropriate card services as well as the DOS and/or Windows drivers to work. The whole PCI or ISA to PCMCIA adapter comment was in regards to getting it to work in a desktop.

The PCMCIA Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS will not work in DOS or in Windows 9x. I've spent a few hours trying different drivers as well as modifying drivers and it will not work. I guess it may be possible to hack the DOS drivers from the regular PCI Live! / Audigy to make it work in DOS but that is currently beyond what I am able to do. Might be as simple as changing the ID the DOS driver looks for but I doubt it as even when forcing the 98 driver for the Audigy 2 to install in Windows 98 for the PCMCIA Audigy 2, it will not initialize the card.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-09-28, 00:56:

I didn't say it would only be useful for DOS sound... I was specifying what types of cards would be useful for DOS sound. And ye […]
Show full quote

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-27, 20:36:

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-09-27, 16:41:

The Magma adapters with the external enclosures are driverless so they should work on pretty much any system as long as you have the correct host card.

I do have multiples of these but they are really only going to be useful for DOS sound with cards that support ddma, dsdma or one of the other special implementations that doesn't require a PC-PCI hookup.

Why only useful for DOS sound? Couldnt a single Soundblaster Live! card be used in an external enclosure which works in Windows and has DOS emulation drivers - granted the DOS emulation is quite poor, but at least it works.

I didn't say it would only be useful for DOS sound... I was specifying what types of cards would be useful for DOS sound. And yeah, a Live! or Audigy/Audigy 2 has pretty poor DOS support. I like to use parts that actually work well for what I want to use them for. The Live and earlier Creative and Ensoniq PCI cards are not what I would call anywhere near good for DOS.

guest_2 wrote on 2021-09-27, 20:36:

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-09-27, 20:08:

At some point I should see if I could get my .WAVjammer to work with a PCI or ISA to PCMCIA adapter. In theory it should work just fine. It could also have to do with the PCMCIA controller. If I remember correctly, the documentation for the wavejammer mentions certain controllers it works with.

Doesn't the Wavjammer just work if you connect it straight into a PCMCIA slot?

If the PCMCIA Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS SB0530 supported (even if forced to work) on windows 98 it would quite good.

Nope, the Wavjammer requires the appropriate card services as well as the DOS and/or Windows drivers to work. The whole PCI or ISA to PCMCIA adapter comment was in regards to getting it to work in a desktop.

The PCMCIA Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS will not work in DOS or in Windows 9x. I've spent a few hours trying different drivers as well as modifying drivers and it will not work. I guess it may be possible to hack the DOS drivers from the regular PCI Live! / Audigy to make it work in DOS but that is currently beyond what I am able to do. Might be as simple as changing the ID the DOS driver looks for but I doubt it as even when forcing the 98 driver for the Audigy 2 to install in Windows 98 for the PCMCIA Audigy 2, it will not initialize the card.

Wouldnt something like an AOpen AW744L II PCI Sound Card which has a YAMAHA YMF744 Chip work quite well in on of the Magma adapters?
The Wavjammer sounds like it's a real pain to get get working and not worth the headache
That's that idea (PCMCIA Audigy 2ZS) out the window.

It surprising Creative never released a PCMCIA Soundblaster that supported Win 9X. I was under the impression PCMCIA was being slowly phased out around the time XP was released or not long after

Edit.
The only available option it seems is to buy something like a OPL3LPT from serdashop.com which is available. As I understand it, this will provide DOS music support when the game is patched but still no sound effects.

Having read over the thread a few people hoard PCMCIA soundcards, I guess as collectors items instead of using them all. So sad that items from a vintage era will be sat unused (probably for resale in house clearance many years from now)

I do have a retro desktop machine but this is being sold as have downsized to a vintage laptop. The only issue now being DOS sound and music support (hence me searching for PCMCIA / LPT devices)

Just in case someone missed this. There are new Doom and Wolf3d mods that support Sound Blaster direct mode. Which means that the owners of ESS based PCMCIA cards now can play these games with full sound, both Adlib and digital sound in DOS. The added value here is the digital sound part, among other very cool features that these mods provide.
This implies (theoretically) all Ratoc cards, Panasonic KXL-D745/D20, EXP SoundNote and Eiger/Fujitsu Sound Card.
As well as DSP Solutions cards. I tried Ratoc and DSP Solutions card - all worked fine. The latter worked for digital sound in Wolf3D and other real mode games before, but now it works in Doom which is a protected mode game.
FastDoom https://github.com/viti95/FastDoom/releases
WolfMIDI https://github.com/ericvids/wolfdosmpu/releases

That is very cool, you were the one asking him to implement the SB Direct access/noDMA mode, right?

And now for something a bit different, FM and/or PCM cards only for the japanese PC-98 standard, a short review:
http://j02.nobody.jp/jto98/n_note_sound/pcmciafm.htm
Most of them use the Yamaha YMF288 chipset.

Computer Technica FMC-98 and PFC-98

Website: https://web.archive.org/web/19990505111757/ht … it12/unit12.htm
Driver: https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.com- … river/fmc98.exe
Inside pictures:
https://twitter.com/Flyingharuka/status/90422 … 6139707392?s=20

Driver: https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.com- … river/pfc98.exe

Q-Vision WM Card, Card86/Card86-R

This is the pcmcia version of the Qvision WaveStar with SCSI https://web.archive.org/web/20010217231042/ht … oduct/wsmt.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20010217230340/ht … product/ws.html
Possible driver at: http://navitoku.jp/archive/98station/maker/qv … ware/SOUND.html

The Card86 is similar to the WM Card but without SCSI, the R variant adds full duplex.
Website: https://web.archive.org/web/20000412032226/ht … duct/pc86r.html
Driver and enabler:
http://navitoku.jp/archive/98station/maker/qv … re/card86r.html
https://www.vector.co.jp/soft/dos/art/se253889.html

Nec PC-9801N-J04

This card is PCM only.
Specs: https://support.nec-lavie.jp/support/product/ … bod/a282-1.html
Driver: https://web.archive.org/web/19990202120715/ht … les/98_350.html

Panasonic CF-VEW213:
Picture and driver: Re: PCMCIA Sound Cards

Its rebranded version by Logitec as the LPM-SU98:
https://twitter.com/team486buntan/status/1255 … 4095524866?s=20
https://www.logitec.co.jp/down/soft/pcmcia/lpmsu98.html

Ratoc 9871 and 9872 cards, same as the Dos/V 5071/5072 models, based on the ESS1688 chipset.
https://www.ratocsystems.com/products/subpage/9871.html
https://www.ratocsystems.com/products/subpage/9872.html

Drivers: https://www.ratocsystems.com/products/ostaiou/audio.html
Manuals for the xx71 series at the bottom: https://www.ratocaudiolab.com/download/manual.html

Won a KXL-DN745A on eBay (well, made an offer lower than the asking price) with basically all of the entails/trimmings:

I know it's Adlib support, which my NEC laptop really needs as it only has WSS, which is only SB and no FM.

I think this is a Japanese import model (the manual and diskette have the Japanese language on it).