Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby shock__ » 2019-4-18 @ 11:57

Updated BOM (formating is correct in the .txt ... the code tag doesn't do it proper justice)
Also ... 2 generations of prototypes + current RC: https://i.imgur.com/8BXtlUC.jpg

Code: Select all
ARGUS Release Candidate Bill of materials

Capacitors ceramic:
Part     Value                       Package       Note
C0       100nF                      SMD 0805
C1       100nF                      SMD 0805
C2       100nF                      SMD 0805
C3       100nF                      SMD 0805
C4       100nF                      SMD 0805
C5       100nF                      SMD 0805
C6       100nF                      SMD 0805
C7       100nF                      SMD 0805
C8       100nF                      SMD 0805
C9       100nF                      SMD 0805
C10      100nF                      SMD 0805
C11      100nF                      SMD 0805
C12      100nF                      SMD 0805
C13      100nF                      SMD 0805
C14    100nF                SMD 0805
C15A     22pF                       SMD 0805
C15B     22pF                       SMD 0805
C16      100nF                      SMD 0805
C16A     22pF                       SMD 0805
C16B     22pF                       SMD 0805
C17      100nF                      SMD 0805
C18      100nF                      SMD 0805
C20      100nF                      SMD 0805
C22      100nF                      SMD 0805
C30      100nF                      SMD 0805
C31      100nF                      SMD 0805
C32      100nF                      SMD 0805
C33      100nF                      SMD 0805
C40      100nF                       SMD 0805
C41      100nF                      SMD 0805
C42      100nF                      SMD 0805
C60      100nF                      SMD 0805
C61      22pF                       SMD 0805
C62      22pF                       SMD 0805
C63      470pF                      SMD 0805
C64      470pF                      SMD 0805
C71      470pF                      SMD 0805
C73      470pF                      SMD 0805
C80A     6.8nF                      SMD 0805
C80B     6.8nF                      SMD 0805
C81A     6.8nF                      SMD 0805
C81B     6.8nF                      SMD 0805
C82A     6.8nF                      SMD 0805
C82B     6.8nF                      SMD 0805
C83A     6.8nF                      SMD 0805
C83B     6.8nF                      SMD 0805
C84      1nF                        SMD 0805
C85      1nF                        SMD 0805
C86      100nF                      SMD 0805
C93      100nF                      SMD 0805
C706     2.2uF                      SMD 0805
C707     2.2uF                      SMD 0805
C708     2.2uF                      SMD 0805
C709     2.2uF                      SMD 0805
C710     2.2uF                      SMD 0805
C711     2.2uF                      SMD 0805
C712     2.2uF                      SMD 0805
C713     2.2uF                      SMD 0805
C714     2.2uF                      SMD 0805
C715     2.2uF                      SMD 0805
C716     100nF                      SMD 0805
CA1      100nF                      SMD 0805
CA2      100nF                      SMD 0805
* Ratings shouldn't be lower than 35V


Capacitors electrolytic:
Part     Value                       Package       Note
C200     10uF, 35V*                 Through Hole      2.5mm Pin distance, 6mm diameter**
C703     10uF, 16V*                 Through Hole      2.5mm Pin distance, 6mm diameter**
C704     10uF, 16V*                 Through Hole      2.5mm Pin distance, 6mm diameter**
C717     10uF, 16V*                 Through Hole      2.5mm Pin distance, 6mm diameter**
C718     10uF, 16V*                 Through Hole      2.5mm Pin distance, 6mm diameter**
C719     10uF, 16V*                 Through Hole      2.5mm Pin distance, 6mm diameter**
C720     10uF, 35V*                 Through Hole      2.5mm Pin distance, 6mm diameter**
C721     10uF, 16V*                 Through Hole      2.5mm Pin distance, 6mm diameter**
C722     10uF, 16V*                 Through Hole      2.5mm Pin distance, 6mm diameter**
C723     10uF, 16V*                 Through Hole      2.5mm Pin distance, 6mm diameter**
C724     10uF, 16V*                 Through Hole      2.5mm Pin distance, 6mm diameter**
C725     10uF, 35V*                 Through Hole      2.5mm Pin distance, 6mm diameter**
* Voltage ratings are minimums, personally I used 50V capacitors for all.
** A reasonable maximum height is 8mm when intending to use a daughterboard, otherwise virtually any height goes


Connectors:
Part     Value                       Package       Note
SIMM     72 Pin SIMM connector, 90°, 45° or 0°             i.e. AMP 73824862 (tested)
J1       3.5mm Audio Jack Stereo raised             i.e. CUI SJ1-3543N
J2       3.5mm Audio Jack Stereo raised             i.e. CUI SJ1-3543N
J3       3.5mm Audio Jack Stereo raised             i.e. CUI SJ1-3543N
P8       15 Pin female               SUB-D Print
MPC      1X04, 90°                   Pinheader 2.54mm
P45      1X04, 90°                  Pinheader 2.54mm


Resistors:
Part     Value                       Package       Note
R1       10K                         SMD 0805
R2       10K                        SMD 0805
R3       10K                        SMD 0805
R4       10K                        SMD 0805
R6       10K                        SMD 0805
R7       10K                        SMD 0805
R8       10K                        SMD 0805
R9       10K                        SMD 0805
R10      61.9K                      SMD 0805
R11      10K                        SMD 0805
R12    10K                SMD 0805            
R13A    10K / nc             SMD 0805      Refer to silkscreen or note for U31
R13B    10K                SMD 0805
R13C    0 / nc                SMD 0805      Refer to silkscreen or note for U31
R14      10K                        SMD 0805
R15      10K                        SMD 0805
R16      10K                        SMD 0805
R17      0                          SMD 0805
R18      0                          SMD 0805
R40      200                        SMD 0805
R41      nc                         SMD 0805      not populated
R52      5.1K                       SMD 0805
R53      5.1K                       SMD 0805
R54      5.1K                       SMD 0805
R55      5.1K                       SMD 0805
R60      5.1K                       SMD 0805
R61      22K                        SMD 0805
R62      390                        SMD 0805
R63      10K                        SMD 0805
R64      5.1K                       SMD 0805
R65      22K                        SMD 0805
R66      390                        SMD 0805
R67      10K                        SMD 0805
R70      10K                        SMD 0805
R71      20K                        SMD 0805
R72      10K                        SMD 0805
R73      20K                        SMD 0805
R74      75                         SMD 0805
R75      20K                        SMD 0805
R76      75                         SMD 0805
R77      20K                        SMD 0805
R80      2.2K                       SMD 0805
R81      2.2K                       SMD 0805
R82      2.2K                       SMD 0805
R83      2.2K                       SMD 0805
R84      200                        SMD 0805
R85      200                        SMD 0805
R600     5.1K                       SMD 0805
R602     5.1K                       SMD 0805
R605     5.1K                       SMD 0805
R606     5.1K                       SMD 0805
R607     5.1K                       SMD 0805
R608     5.1K                       SMD 0805
R609     10K                        SMD 0805
R610     5.1K                       SMD 0805
R611     5.1K                       SMD 0805
R612     0                          SMD 0805
R614     0                          SMD 0805
R615     0                          SMD 0805
R616     nc                         SMD 0805      not populated
R617     nc                         SMD 0805      not populated
R618     nc                         SMD 0805      not populated
R619     nc                         SMD 0805      not populated
R620     nc / 0                     SMD 0805      See schematic. Default: not populated
* all resistors 1/8W (except R620)


Integrated circuits:
Part     Value                       Package       Note
U0       DRAM 256K*16 or 1024K*16 (70ns or less) SO40 / SO42      i.e. HY514260BJC-60 (optional Socket: i.e. AMP 3-822265-2) or HY5118160JC-70
U1       DRAM 256K*16 or 1024K*16 (70ns or less) SO40 / SO42            i.e. HY514260BJC-60 (optional Socket: i.e. AMP 3-822265-2) or HY5118160JC-70
U10      AM78C201AKC                 QFP160
U30      AT93C66SC                   SO8
U31      IW78C21M1 / 29F800 (70ns or less)     SO44         Socket optionally supported (i.e. Yamaichi IC179Z-44)*
U32      74F373DW                    SO20
U33      74F373DW                    SO20
U40      74F32D                      SO14
U60      TL082C                      SO8
U70      MS6308                      SO8
* alternatively one can solder 2x 2x25 1.27mm SMD female headers (i.e. 20021321-00050T4LF) onto the elongated pads (spanning U31 and U31EX), for a future daughterboard
  set R13A and R13C accordingly (IW78C21M1 -> R13A = nc, R13C = 0)
            (29F800 -> R13A = 10k, R13C = nc)


Voltage regulators:
Part     Value                       Package       Note
U20      7805 (1A or 3A)                         TO-220
U22      7905 (1A)                       TO-220


Oscillators:
Part     Value                       Package       Note
X17      24.576MHz                   HC49/S
X18      16.9344MHz                  HC49/S


Connectors optional:
Part     Value                       Package       Note
X1       2X31                        Pinheader 2.54mm
X2       2X18                        Pinheader 2.54mm
CON      1X02                       Pinheader 2.54mm
IW       1X02                        Pinheader 2.54mm
JP8      1X02                       Pinheader 2.54mm
Attachments
RC-bill_of_materials.txt
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby matze79 » 2019-4-18 @ 16:29

i still found no way of disabling FM Emulation without Soundblaster Support, :/
it would be nice to retain Digital Output and using my Prototype OPL2 Daughter board on Argus Header.
I will order testing boards soon :)
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby shock__ » 2019-4-18 @ 16:41

Keep us updated :)
Any preview shots yet?
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby 640K!enough » 2019-4-19 @ 04:45

matze79 wrote:i still found no way of disabling FM Emulation without Soundblaster Support, :/
it would be nice to retain Digital Output and using my Prototype OPL2 Daughter board on Argus Header.

I guess they made the assumption that a person using a device with an FM synthesizer would also have basic Sound Blaster digital audio support. It was probably a reasonable design decision at the time; it was mostly just real Ad Lib cards that didn't have both (and maybe some extra-cheap off-brand clones).

I haven't really looked into whether there is a way to get support for this combination. Have you looked through MESETUP.EXE to see if recent versions of Mega-Em can do what you're looking for? I'm not sure, but I don't think IWSBOS will knowingly do one without the other. There may still be some tricks we can use to get the behaviour you want. For instance, have you tried changing the I/O address for the FM emulation in IW.INI? Unless the emulation tools change the values in those registers or also use protected-mode trickery to trap port accesses, any address other than 388h should do the trick (even try 0). Even if that works, it isn't clear what happens if some software tries to access the OPL2 via 220h, Sound Blaster style; this is something that warrants testing.

If none of that works, there may be other ways, but it's worth experimenting with the easier methods first.

Also, you may be able to cut down on the glue logic needed to decode addresses by using the external device support provided by the InterWave. The only drawback to that is that it would preclude use of the external serial port (not that I expect that to work for S/PDIF support anyway), as you would re-assign one or more of those pins.
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby 640K!enough » 2019-4-19 @ 04:57

Trying to get the new, just-for-ARGUS ROM module done, I notice that there don't seem to be any 16 MiB (8M x 16) parallel flash ICs with access times of 70 ns or less (at least not via Digi-Key). As it is, it looks like a multi-chip solution will be required. I intended to have two footprints for flash, anyhow, but a single-chip design would likely have been a less expensive way to get to 16 MiB. Does anyone know of a part that would meet those requirements?
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby cyclone3d » 2019-4-19 @ 05:47

640K!enough wrote:Trying to get the new, just-for-ARGUS ROM module done, I notice that there don't seem to be any 16 MiB (8M x 16) parallel flash ICs with access times of 70 ns or less (at least not via Digi-Key). As it is, it looks like a multi-chip solution will be required. I intended to have two footprints for flash, anyhow, but a single-chip design would likely have been a less expensive way to get to 16 MiB. Does anyone know of a part that would meet those requirements?


What about this:
http://www.macronix.com/en-us/products/NOR-Flash/Parallel-NOR-Flash/Pages/spec.aspx?p=MX29GL128F&m=Parallel%20NOR%20Flash&n=PM1683

or this:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/micron-technology-inc/M29W128GL70N3E/M29W128GL70N3E-ND/4316650

Looks like mouser may have a good selection as well:
https://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Memory-ICs/NOR-Flash/_/N-488w1?P=1z0sr05Z1z0t6brZ1z0vhtu
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby matze79 » 2019-4-19 @ 13:55

I will show it when i got the drawing finished!

want to finish the PSG Board first, and PSG Addonboard :)
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby hard1k » 2019-4-20 @ 15:32

I think this question has already been answered here, but let me try to put it another way :)
As we'll probably produce a batch of custom metal brackets (or at least make them like Fagear did), maybe we still could swap the Line-Out jack for 2xRCA? PCB space allows for that as far as I see...
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby shock__ » 2019-4-20 @ 16:08

Definitely not anymore at this point.
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby hard1k » 2019-4-20 @ 16:26

Very sad to hear that as it would not make any complex change at all, and RCAs are just way better than jacks.
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby shock__ » 2019-4-20 @ 17:35

And XLR is better than RCA.
Unless there's something severely broken/non functional the current design is final.
And yes, while the actual change to the schematic is trivial, the layout would have to be majorly rearranged. Spacing the electrolytic caps wasn't that easy already and we're talking about fractions of millimeters here.
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby 640K!enough » 2019-4-20 @ 17:38


At Digi-Key, many of those are not stocked items. Those that are available are often too slow. Mouser doesn't list the full access time, while Digi-Key usually does. Many of the Cypress parts, once you factor in the delay for page access, are over 90 ns; shock__ has already shown that that will cause problems.

The Micron part may be fast enough, so I will try to allow for that in the design, and we'll find out when we try it. I will try to allow that as an option, so that either configuration can be used. The design is progressing, and soon it will be time for layout and routing, by far the most tedious tasks for me.
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby hard1k » 2019-4-20 @ 19:24

shock__ wrote:And XLR is better than RCA.
Unless there's something severely broken/non functional the current design is final.
And yes, while the actual change to the schematic is trivial, the layout would have to be majorly rearranged. Spacing the electrolytic caps wasn't that easy already and we're talking about fractions of millimeters here.

Sorry! I thought that the Line Out has migrated to the upper jack (as it's labelled as X3 I've confused it with the former J3 what used to mean Line Out, but then I looked carefully at both prototype PCBs and got that you've just changed the labelling), that's why I thought that obviously there was plenty of space upwards... My mistake :)
Moreover, now it's completely clear to me that the Vibra bracket from CT4170 should be compatible and all its ports labels should be right (upside down - Line In, Mic In, Line Out), shouldn't they? So now the only manipulation needed for the Vibra bracket is either to cut its metal "wing" or to drill a mounting hole in the ARGUS PCB, correct?
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby dogchainx » 2019-4-22 @ 03:48

Very nice progress of the project! I've been MIA while my house is finishing being built, so completely forgot about this until today.

Excited to see what the next couple of months brings about!
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby matze79 » 2019-4-23 @ 15:23

Today i recieved a Email from Digikey.

IC FLASH 8M PARALLEL 44SOP is EOL.
MX29F800CBMI-70G

Seems its buyable until 04/01/2020.
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby 640K!enough » 2019-4-23 @ 15:46

matze79 wrote:Today i recieved a Email from Digikey.

IC FLASH 8M PARALLEL 44SOP is EOL.
MX29F800CBMI-70G

Seems its buyable until 04/01/2020.

There is a notice on the Macronix Web site also. It seems that their (sole?) supplier is discontinuing a number of SOP packages and one PLCC. Still, we are likely to find suitable ICs available for the time that we need them, and the original masked ROM is still available for purchase.

For anyone sourcing flash ICs from eBay, etc., just make sure they have an access time of 70 ns or lower.

This notice is not enough of a problem to prompt any layout changes, as far as I'm concerned. We'll be able to source the parts we need. Besides, trying to accommodate another package on the board at this point would create major headaches and a horrendous routing mess.
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby shock__ » 2019-4-23 @ 15:55

Absolutely agree ... just because an IC is going EOL doesn't mean it's a problem to source them for a small run hobbyist project. Afterall the IW78C21M1 is EOL since almost 20 years at this point.
If we were talking on the scale of 1000s per week for the next few months, then it would be an issue :P

Still - good eye, I probably wouldn't even have noticed.
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby 640K!enough » 2019-4-29 @ 10:28

Just thought I'd share a preliminary progress report on development of the new ROM module. This first version is a bit sloppy and will only support up to 4 MiB, since larger 5V flash ICs aren't available. Please excuse the rough routing; it's not one of my strengths, and it's rather late (actually, early now).

I'm not sure this has quite the right proportions to clear the SIMM, when an angled socket is used, but for a first test, it will do. I haven't decided if these are even worth producing, or if it makes more sense to wait until I complete it's more capable counterpart. In either case, a few renderings:

Front.jpg

Back.jpg
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby hard1k » 2019-4-29 @ 10:34

Looks nice! :)
New sound card project: AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted at Amibay)
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Re: Newly made Gravis Ultrasound compatible cards ... what's the degree of interest?

Postby shock__ » 2019-5-10 @ 21:46

Great news from 640k!Enough - bad news from me.
After an intentional delay (I currently have an extremely interesting and rare machine around for repairs) an unintentional one has been added. Might sound silly, but my soldering iron actually broke (<random brand> 853D - great station, but part of the soldering iron is made from a horrible plastic that gets brittle over time, especially when exposed to high heat, when reworking 4+ layer boards as I've been doing the past week) and it will take 5 weeks to get a replacement. So unless you consider yourself able to solder the InterWave yourself, you'll have to wait an additional 5 weeks til your "Release Candidate" will get shipped.
If that's unacceptable to you, I can offer a refund.
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