James-F wrote:

But, backward compatibility is perfectly fine, ie; composed on 55 will sound good on 88 and up.

Not always. Some SC-55 MIDIs can be problematic because ones that were composed before the release of the SC-88 don't specify the Bank Select LSB (CC #32) value, as it had no purpose at that time. From the SC-88 up the LSB specifies which instrument map the patch is taken from: 1=SC-55 2=SC-88 3=SC-88pro 4=SC-8850/20. When it's set to the default value of 0, the native instrument map will be used, i.e. the SC-8820 map in the case of this VST.

They aren't too common, but due to this there are compositions that are virtually unlistenable unless the unit/VST is forced to use the SC-55 map. A few sounds in the default map changed radically between the SC-55 and 88.

Another bug I noticed with it. It doesn't seem to support the extreme maximum range of the pitch wheel, as evidenced by FASTWAY.MID from Rise of the Triad. It seems to completely ignore the pitch wheel sliding above zero, or above some threshold.

@Silanda
I agree that the mix balance and instruments timbre will not be identical if playing music composed on SC-55 , on a SC-88 and up, but it will be perfectly listenable.
Also, every successive model of Sound Canvas supports the previous model sound map which will sound almost exactly like the previous model and can be forced on the unit itself, including the SC-VA.

@kode54
Can you be more specific? To me it sounds exactly the same as some youtube recordings of the track.
What Minute:Second do you hear the problem, and what is your comparison source?
If you are 100% it's a bug please notify Roland so they'll fix it asap.

James-F wrote:

@Silanda
I agree that the mix balance and instruments timbre will not be identical if playing music composed on SC-55 , on a SC-88 and up, but it will be perfectly listenable.

There are odd occasions where it really isn't unless you want a headache. I've attached an example from the PC-98 game "Steam Heart's". The actual track sounds worse in game, as there the reverb/chorus levels are cranked too high for some reason. The file will sound fine by default (unlike in the actual game which has CC #32 set to zero), but if you change the map to SC-88 or higher (if you can do that on the fly with the VST), or change the Synth Bass sound (MIDI channel 9) to use the SC-88 variant, well yeah, you'll see what I mean.

Yes, it's not really a problem as you can set the unit to use compatibility mapping, but as that can be awkward on some models (e.g. M-GS64), and can also be easily overlooked, it's good practice while composing to bear it in mind.

Disregard that, I suck. I still have a bad .MUS conversion of the file on my hard drive, and it was in the playlist. The converter broke the pitch bends, or the target format didn't support that range.

Adding to Philscomputerlab post using SAVIHost to use the SC-VA plugin;

To force SC-55 map in dosbox, start the SAVIHost SC-VA plugin and click on the PlugIn tab, click Filters, mark SysEx.
Go into "Control Changes" by pressing the "..." button near it, select 000 and 032 (use ctrl), press OK, mark "Control Changes" with square, and another OK to exit Filter menu.

Click the ALL button on the upper right of the plugin GUI, with the left/right arrows (under ALL button) select SC-55 map.
Only then run Dosbox or other Midi Player

This will disable SysEx commands to the plugin through which it receives a reset command, resulting it being stuck on the 8820 map.
Now the SC-VA will not be able to receive a Reset command and you will be able to select any SC-xx map you desire.
And don't manualy reset SC-VA vie the SYSTEM menu because it will have the same effect.

BUT, games that rely on the reset command for the slider to be in their default place will use the sliders position from the previous game.
For example Duke Nukem 3D uses Reverb almost full across all sliders.
When you run Doom after Duke, Doom will use the Reverb positions Duke used because it relies on the Sysex reset command to set all the reverb sliders to 40 (default).

Hope next version of SC-VA will have that fixed.

EDIT:
See my next post with a midi file which resets the sliders to default without sending a reset command.

EDIT2:
Updated Reset Midi file to Final Version:
This final Reset.mid version is uploaded which will reset absolutely all SC-VA setting to default.
Using all RPN, NRPN, Controller settings available from the SC-VA manual, on all channels.

I also added a small instruction to the Filter menu to bypass Map changes that can act like a reset.

Great news James, I will try it out ASAP 😀

AND... 😎

Here is a midi file I created which will turn all the sliders to default position without sending a reset command.
Level 100, Pan Center, Reverb 40, Chorus 0.

After playing a game just run in with any midi player (vanBasco Karaoke Player, is good).

Enjoy!

EDIT:
The Reset File is attached to my previous post.

Nice, that works pretty well.

Quick question. If I remember correctly Doom sets reverb and chorus for individual parts. Is this reliant on working Sysex or not?

Nah, all the Chorus, Reverb, Pan, Level changes work flawlessly without SysEx.
All the automation of the sliders I've checked works and I can see the sliders move according to the midi played.
Although they CAN be moved via SysEX, the basics (Level, Pan, Reverb, Chorus, Control Wheel, Expression, Instrument Change) do not need SysEx and can be controlled anytime during the track.

The SysEx commands are used for more complex customization.
It can change global settings like "Master Key", "Master Volume", "Default Map"; but it can also change every fine tuning you have available like "chorus depth" of every channel at any time.
If there is a key change for example or the snare drum pitch needs to be changed sysex is needed.
Warcraft 2 for example has very complex tracks with all the sliders moving and instruments change during the track, and everything works fine without sysex.

You can download the SC-VA manual (Options->HELP) and look from page 95 down.
Basically SysEx can change anything anytime, to make the most out of the limited 16 channels.
No, it's not a good thing to disable it, more complex tracks than games use it a lot.

Could this be used kind of like MUNT to give a retro machine Roland MIDI through the midi output?
I'm rather obsessed with the concept at the moment.

SRQ wrote:

Could this be used kind of like MUNT to give a retro machine Roland MIDI through the midi output?
I'm rather obsessed with the concept at the moment.

Absolutely!

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

SRQ wrote:

Could this be used kind of like MUNT to give a retro machine Roland MIDI through the midi output?
I'm rather obsessed with the concept at the moment.

Absolutely!

Oh my, oh my indeed.

Would this work too? I have an iPad and using it to be a pseudo-mt32/whatever is enticing: http://www.roland.ca/products/sound_canvas_for_ios/

I think there is an existing thread on this App!

So there is!
Wait a second, isn't that app this except on an iPad?

I have updated this post Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin! with the latest Reset.mid which will reset Pitch Sensitivity and Master Key.
Also, I added a small instruction that will disable a Map change through midi files which is important, as I've noticed that many midi files change the map via Bank Select LSB (CC #32) value, and you will not be able to change it back within SC-VA unless you filter out Control #32 before.

What I do is freshly load SC-VA, Filter out SysEx and Controller #32.
Now I can change Maps within SC-VA and select and SC-xx model which suits the Game I play.
Before running a game (or whenever I need a reset to default) I will use the Reset.mid.

This should do until a more functional version released.

Cheers 🤣

Thank for all the work you committed to this!

Just stretching my Greys and Whites... learned about Midi in the past days more than I knew or wanted to know. 😀
All the better nonetheless.

EDIT:
A final Reset.mid version is uploaded wich will reset absolutely all SC-VA setting to default.
Using all RPN, NRPN, Controller settings available from the SC-VA manual.

Here are the instructions again:
What I do is freshly load SC-VA, Filter out SysEx and Controller #32.
Now I can change Maps within SC-VA and select and SC-xx model which suits the Game I play.
Before running a game (or whenever I need a reset to default) I will use the Reset.mid.

Reset.mid here:
Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

I've been doing some testing of Midi behavior in games:

Doom 1 & 2 will call for GM1 (Reset to General Midi) using a SysEx (F0 7E 7F 09 01 F7) once when you enter doom and once when you quit.
Good programming, an example for all the rest how it should be done.

Duke Nukem 3D will not use any SysEx, instead it sets each parameter one by one like I did with my Reset.mid.
It will use any mode (GS. GM1, GM2) already set; When you quit it will reset only the volume sliders to 88, leaving everything else untouched.
Bad programming, no reset command so unused parameters will stay as is and may effect the sound of other games.
If you played Doom before, you stuck in GM1/GM2 Mode.

Warcraft 1 & 2 worse than Duke Nukem 3D, it will set each parameter to default one by one without a reset command.
When you quit it will not touch anything and leave the sliders as is.

Simcity 2000: will properly send reset Sysex command (F0 41 10 16 12 7F 00 00 01 00 F7) for old D-110/MT-32 type synths (checked the manuals).
Although newer Sound Canvas (including SC-VA) will not understand them thus do nothing.
Excellent programming for the MT-32 and nothing else.

To test these I actually started recording in my DAW before running a game and stopped after quiting,
afterwards I analyzed the events of the recording to see what midi commands the game calls for.

As you can see, games had no standard as to how to actually program the midi code so each manufacturer did what seemed to him correct or straight forward worked for the particular model he used.
Some use SysEx command to reset and change midi modes, some just manually move all the basic sliders on each channel to default position.
And we have the age factor, so not every old command will work even with the hardware Sound Canvas.

To conclude;
Based on this information that the game developers themselves used whatever they felt like at the time, I will use a better method.... My method. 😊
Just filter out (disable) the Sysex and Controller (0,32) in SAVIHost and use my reset midi for best results and the most expected behavior with every game.
If the SC-VA resembles the behavior of the real hardware, you might want to use this reset.mid with the real sound canvas hardware too.

With my SC-55 I always power cycle the unit before I run a game 😀