How does it compare with other soft synths?

For General Midi 1/2 or GS? This is the new king hands down.
Midi IS Sound Canvas.

Okay. Can you please tell me WHY it's better? What do you like about it compared to Bassmidi with a good sound font?

gdjacobs wrote:

Okay. Can you please tell me WHY it's better? What do you like about it compared to Bassmidi with a good sound font?

Let's not use the word "better", as all of this is subjective 😀

Sound Canvas VA sounds like the real thing. Many SoundFonts have tried to do that, but failed.

Now I love SoundFonts, but when I use them I want sound that is "beyond" Sound Canvas, like Arachno in Doom. But because many DOS games music was composed on a Sound Canvas, it sounds extremely natural and balanced. So what many DOS gamers have sitting next to their DOS retro PC, is a Sound Canvas.

But now you can get this software version of Sound Canvas and get the same experience, but with the bonus of having SC-88, SC-88 Pro and SC-8820.

So it's not about better, but Sound Canvas was the de-facto General MIDI standard back in the day, so I'm really happy with this release 😊

More fidelity. I get that. As I tend to not use Windows for much anymore, hopefully this product will drive down the price of SC-55 and SC-88 modules!

I dislike handwavy claims. Without a point of comparison, how do we know where new products such as this fit into the landscape. I hope my earlier comment wasn't too pushy in trying to dig a little deeper. If so, I apologize.

Edit: Wow! Never write when you're not fully awake.

Also, SC-55 was the first hardware that had a full general midi sound set so everything midi was composed on it.
Later came Yamaha and Korg with synthesizers (piano) which supported general midi (GM).
As phil said, they all support GM but Sound Canvas was the "go to" hardware all composers used across the 90s especially the sc-55.

As time went by, Roland came with better and more realistic sounding sc units but the already composed music sounds best and most balanced with the hardware is was composed on.

I've played a bit with the trial version - this thing sounds great, in a totally different class than the old Virtual Sound Canvas Softsynth. However it does not sound exactly like a SC-55. I no longer have my SC-88Pro so I can't tell for sure, but I guess it might use the SC-55 map from the SC-88Pro soundset, which actually sounds a bit different from a real SC-55.

Here are two recordings I just made to illustrate this. Classic Doom E1M1 - first recorded with my SC-55MkII, and then with the Sound Canvas VA VST.

MMaximus,
That is because in your SC55VA recording the SC-VA using the 8820 sound map, not the sc-55.
It's a bug in this v1.000 release version.. like all freshly released Roland software.

When the SC-VA receives a Reset command or forced reset through the System submenu, it is stuck on 8820 sound set even though it shows something else.
Some midi players will send a reset command first thing.
"vanBasco's Karaoke Player" will not send a reset command if set to "Windows" in "Reset Mode", also MPC-HC will not send a reset command.

As suggested by the Sound Canvas VA manual, and as evidenced by its MIDI implementation, "accurate" playback of GS sequences that incorporate heavy tonal and filter modifications (via NRPN or SysEx usage) may be limited to pieces composed with the SC-88(Pro) and later. This shouldn't affect the playback or enjoyment of most GM-authored game soundtracks, but might be important when considering the Sound Canvas VA as a replacement for actual SC-55 or SC-55mkII hardware otherwise.

Here's how the Sound Canvas VA fares with my own dumb little test sequence:

Original MIDI file

SC-55mkII output

Sound Canvas VA output

Great recordings!

So guys, my video about the Sound Canvas VA is online. Early access for Vogons members 🤣

Roland Sound Canvas VA Software Synthesizer with DOSBox and ScummVM

Neat video Phil as always! Though it seems the MIDI recordings themselves are using the 8820 instrument map as I recognise those samples. 😜

It makes me want to try this with a few Windows games I have that require an 88 or 88Pro, once I have the time.

MMaximus wrote:

I've played a bit with the trial version - this thing sounds great, in a totally different class than the old Virtual Sound Canvas Softsynth. However it does not sound exactly like a SC-55. I no longer have my SC-88Pro so I can't tell for sure, but I guess it might use the SC-55 map from the SC-88Pro soundset, which actually sounds a bit different from a real SC-55.

Cloudschatze wrote:

As suggested by the Sound Canvas VA manual, and as evidenced by its MIDI implementation, "accurate" playback of GS sequences that incorporate heavy tonal and filter modifications (via NRPN or SysEx usage) may be limited to pieces composed with the SC-88(Pro) and later. This shouldn't affect the playback or enjoyment of most GM-authored game soundtracks, but might be important when considering the Sound Canvas VA as a replacement for actual SC-55 or SC-55mkII hardware otherwise.

Yeah, 88 and above are known to break 100% 55 compatibility in some cases. In my experience when comparing the output of my SC-55ST with the 8850's SC-55 map, sample and playback differences are indeed present but IMO they aren't too major for most users. Much of it comes down to the synth engine utilised - according to another Roland synth enthusiast contact of mine on a different forum, the 55 series uses an early JD-800 engine, 88 and later modules (except the oddball 8850) rely on a modified JV-1080 one, and the 8850 instead goes with an early XV-series one (hence all its compatibility issues).

Said contact did also try the SC-VA VSTi and compared it with the output from their 88Pro, remarking that they sound pretty close to one another - of course, the VSTi won't sound 100% like the real deal mainly due to DAC differences, but it's still a great enough alternative to grabbing a hardware module (usually at very hefty premiums) on eBay. 😜

I don't know if this software version has PART-A and PART-B midi outputs like the real SC-8820 (no idea if this applies to this software version of it) but on a real SC-8820 if you chose to output from PART-B output then it is always at 8820 mode, 55/88/88pro maps that you set with the hardware button don't apply to PART-B - only on PART-A. It perplexed me with my real unit when we did some tests with Kodai so maybe that's something to look for.
Again, maybe all is this irrelevant to this software solution so just ignore it if it really is....

Could be configuration issues, but for me these samples don't quite sound close enough to make me perfectly happy. Sound Canvases haven't really been super rare finds out there yet - pretty sure $125 should still get you a real unit today, many going for half that at times.

In any case it is indeed a commendable effort from Roland.

Thanks Phil!

Alert! With this first release version of SC-VA if you use dosbox all you'll hear are the 8820 samples even though SC-VA shows differently.
I have no idea why this being ignored but I'll post samples to solidify the known bug.
Also, don't press the reset button because it'll also stuck the SC-VA with 8820 map only without the option tho change to other maps even though shown differently.
To check if SC-VA resets, enable the ALL button and with the Left/Right Arrows select and other map. Now see if it resets when a game (dosbox) or a .mid file (player) played.

I have to mention again that Dosbox sends a reset command to the SC-VA and the manual option set as SC-55 is bypassed.
Doom for example sends a message to change SC-VA to GM2 which automatically is 8820, so no SC-55 sound is heard only 8820.
To check this click on any instrument name in the "Part" section.
Basically, all you'll hear with dosbox is 8820, independent of what you set in SC-VA system menu.

To hear other SC-xx maps with SC-VA you'll have to use a Midi Player and load a .mid file which does not force a reset command.
Hope Roland fixes this fast because this makes the SC-VA practically unusable with anything but .mid files that don't send a reset command.

Attached are some samples of the SC-VA in various SC-XX maps when it works properly (in a midi player, not dosbox).

James-F, should we contact Roland about this? The more people contact them the better.

I will hold out buying the full version until we know more 😀

Yes.
I'll drop an email to Roland.

James-F wrote:

Yes.
I'll drop an email to Roland.

Hmm having difficulties finding a contact option on the website.

I'll also post on Reddit, maybe someone knows something.

google "contact roland"

http://www.rolandcorp.com.au/company/contact_us

EDIT:
I've sent a complaint email to rca.support@roland.com
I urge as many people to do the same, and put emphasis on NOT buying the full soft until this is fixed.

Hi. […]
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Hi.

I downloaded the Trial version of Sound Canvas VA, and found a critical bug which makes the SC-VA stuck on the 8820 map without being able to change to other SC-xx maps.
Anytime Sound Canvas VA receives a Reset command, it will stuck on 8820 map (sound) even if the GUI show differently.

Please check this major bug, as this makes SC-VA practically unusable.

Thanks,

James Freeman

James-F wrote:

MMaximus, That is because in your SC55VA recording the SC-VA using the 8820 sound map, not the sc-55. It's a bug in this v1.000 […]
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MMaximus,
That is because in your SC55VA recording the SC-VA using the 8820 sound map, not the sc-55.
It's a bug in this v1.000 release version.. like all freshly released Roland software.
...

Many thanks for pointing that out. I've listened to your recordings and the SC-55 mode seems much closer to the actual output of a real SC-55 module. I can't really notice any difference between the SC-88Pro and SC-8820 maps though... maybe the differences only show on some specific patches?

The drums are completely new on the 8820.

In the 8820 manual: http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/re … /SC-8820_e3.pdf
Starting from page 107 and down you can find the difference between all the maps and what instrument were kept from what version.
On page 127 You can see the Drums.
As you can see the Guitars (page110 in manual) on 8820 were kept from the [Pro] version, but the Standard 1 drum set are all new each successive version.

From what I can see, the 8820 kept 99.9% of it's instrument from the 88Pro and added tons of new instruments.
As mentioned, the Standard 1 drum kit which practically all music uses is also updated.

From what I see in the 8820 manual, it's better NOT playing music composed on a newer model (8820, 88pro), on an old one (88,55).
But, backward compatibility is perfectly fine, ie; composed on 55 will sound good on 88 and up.
Each successive model has tons of new instruments especially the 88Pro and 8820 which are Orchestra oriented.

Cheers