Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-19 @ 05:13

Roland User wrote:Because you do not understand , what I said about General MIDI Level 1 aka GM. In GM must used only Standard 1 Drum Kits

Yes, according to standard you must use only Standard Kit in GM.
SC-VA will show "--------" if the patch on Channel 10 is not 1 (Standard Kit), anything else is not part of the GM standard.

Often other drum kits (Room, Power, Jazz, Orchestra, etc.) were added that are not officially part of the GM standard, but are simply there as an unofficial extension of GM drum kits.
Even "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth" unofficially supports the additional drum kits in GM mode.
Yes they are from GS, and yes you can use them in GM, other less capable synths may not let you play other drum kits except the single Standard kit in GM mode.

As for the volume "feature request" please start a new thread.
You don't seem to be satisfied with the answer I already gave you, and simply ignored it.
Sound Canvas VA (and hardware too) is engineered/programmed so the master bus will not clip even when all instrument play together.
If you can't understand the reason in that and insist re-engineering SC-VA to your liking, tough luck deal with it.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-19 @ 08:30

James-F
We little differently understand what i mean.
I say , what software version maybe more flexibly unlike hardware version. All what I asked , was connected with CM64 map reset in SC-VA and opportunity select gain output.
This does not mean , what must to redo all synthesizer... this only additional software specified. For example , me what would play standard music , and standard games , need 20% volume level in Windows Mixer , and what would play from SC-VA , me need 50-60% volume level in Windows Mixer.. This very does not harmonize , because sounds in games and sounds in software in such circumstances very loud.

Maybe before there was no such difference in volume level between the synthesizer and sound card, but now it is so.

Regarding GM , SC-VA must use only first 128 instruments and only first drum set... Drum sets above number 0 not must usage if selected GM mode aka GM Level1.
Last edited by Roland User on 2016-5-19 @ 09:08, edited 1 time in total.
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-19 @ 08:40

I understand you, and I do the same.
I too have to lower dosbox volume in windows mixer or in game to have balanced sound with SC-VA.
Nothing I can do about it, sorry. This is how it's supposed to be.

As for CM64, just like the hardware 8820, you will have to use a midi file that calls fir it

Both of these topics are feature request which you insist on pushing and I have the patience to answer them again and again.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-19 @ 08:53

Thanks.
But still , ask Roland , What for be limited SC-8820 map )
Just ask Roland , be can this option can add without loss quality synthesizer )
If this don't perhaps , then good , be used as is )

Only SoundCanvas VA draws attention to the controller 75 , This synthesizer correctly playing music if controller 75 variabling. So for example CNIM other synthesizer just value in controller 75, what would there not have been in ranges.
Attachments
example.zip
From 10 min
CNIM-GM this (original file)
CNIM-SC-GM (removed all sysex Controller 75 messages)
CNIM-SC-GS (removed all sysex Controller 75 messages and removed all GM reset mesages)
(392.92 KiB) Downloaded 25 times
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-19 @ 16:23

Roland User wrote:Only SoundCanvas VA draws attention to the controller 75 , This synthesizer correctly playing music if controller 75 variabling. So for example CNIM other synthesizer just value in controller 75, what would there not have been in ranges.

That is a good sign that SC-VA is actually much more capable than other midi synths.
If the music is from the 90s as your midi file, it was probably written on a sound canvas unit.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-19 @ 16:55

What about my offer of SC-8850 Map?
Or we will be limited SC-8820 mode always ?
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-19 @ 17:04

del
Last edited by James-F on 2016-5-20 @ 05:47, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-19 @ 17:14

I did not say that SC-VA is useless)
I just wanted the maximum version with SC8850 Map if possible) because it is the coolest of all the synths I had!
SC-8820 and SC-8850 differ only in the bank of sounds)
And then polyphony SC-8850 above than SC-8820 on Dual ports , if take account what SC-VA available one port versus SC-8850 dual port or SC-8820 dual port - polyphony can multiplied twice.

James-F wrote:Yes I will notify Mr. Junichi Miki (CEO of Roland Japan) that SC-VA is useless because Roland User from the Vogons board doesn't have a volume control or a 8850 map.
Now cut the nonsense or this will be my last reply to you.


In general, do so not good)
I told , what want as better , but not so as you read my idea.
If you notify Mr. Junichi Miki about error-understood , it would be folly.

I can only hope only the fact that it was such a sense of humor or sarcasm.
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby avx » 2016-5-19 @ 19:41

It appears that if all-volume is changed from say 127 to 33, with the all-reverb/all-chorus/all-delay at 64/64/64, the effective volume of the effects is more similar to if all-volume was 127 but all-reverb/all-chorus/all-delay were at ~70/70/70.

I would need to do abx test to say if that's all there was to the 'better quality' at 33. Another possible source of better sound is something happening at the analog side when headphone amp is driven at higher volume, though the effect of that would be EQ-like and depend on the headphone..
avx
Newbie
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 2015-6-01 @ 00:14

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-19 @ 21:39

avx wrote:It appears that if all-volume is changed from say 127 to 33, with the all-reverb/all-chorus/all-delay at 64/64/64, the effective volume of the effects is more similar to if all-volume was 127 but all-reverb/all-chorus/all-delay were at ~70/70/70.

I would need to do abx test to say if that's all there was to the 'better quality' at 33. Another possible source of better sound is something happening at the analog side when headphone amp is driven at higher volume, though the effect of that would be EQ-like and depend on the headphone..


So comes because , selected map as all maps , you see false values. If you select SC-8820 or SC-88Pro or SC88 or SC55 map only , you be see true range value.
Then you be see ranges 40/0/0. Reverb / Chorrus / Delay. So be differ from the fact that you see in All Maps Mode.

James-F
By the way , what be It is clear why this is so with older games when in General MIDI you have Power or Orchestra drums set.
The thing is , whats in this games music written for GS devices... developing for GM devices make as and for GS , with except what pure GM device limited 128 melodic and 1 drums sets... so your just not notice the difference of have drums above 1 or no. So , SC-VA no correct work in GM Level 1 mode always.
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-20 @ 05:36

avx wrote:It appears that if all-volume is changed from say 127 to 33, with the all-reverb/all-chorus/all-delay at 64/64/64, the effective volume of the effects is more similar to if all-volume was 127 but all-reverb/all-chorus/all-delay were at ~70/70/70.

I have tested this as scientifically as possible with my DAW.
I recorded two tracks, one with volume on 127 and one on 30, then normalized the tracks and matches times perfectly, and switched phase on one of the tracks.
This test is called a cancellation test, if the tracks are absolutely identical they would cancel each other to silence because one of the tracks is exactly 180 out of phase.
At least that's what I have expected, but results are different.

With reverb and chorus completely off (0) there is modulation of sound and phase shift between instruments even if I record the same tune twice at volume 127.
This happens because of modulating (vibrating or "swish" sounding) instruments like Strings.
Moreover, the sound is the same for volume 127 and 30 with reverb and chorus at 64 as for 127 and 127, they cancel out to very similar sounding result.
So SC-VA never plays the same sound more than once to begin with, and what appears to be a slight change in reverb or chorus can be categorized as placebo.

Besides, can you actually hear a difference of 5 clicks of Reveb at 127?
That's a sharp ear buddy! :happy:

@Roland User
I replied to this matter in detail not a few posts ago http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=46111&p=498885#p498683.
Last edited by James-F on 2016-5-20 @ 10:09, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-20 @ 08:03

James-F
Yes , I'm a little impenetrable) , and I think that corresponds to GM Level 1 specifications must be absolute. :blah:
And i answered on what your told little below. No one will do special music for GM and SC devices, if user have GM device , will be play first 128 melodic patches and only first drum sets always. If this you do not understand , then I do not known what do.
In GM2 mode or GS mode , all must stay as is.
Applied to SC-55 , known whats this device interprets the GM Reset as GS Reset and not available pure GM mode.
Last edited by Roland User on 2016-5-20 @ 09:10, edited 1 time in total.
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-20 @ 08:30

Roland User wrote:Regarding GM , SC-VA must use only first 128 instruments and only first drum set... Drum sets above number 0 not must usage if selected GM mode aka GM Level1.


You basically insist of truncating the functionality of SC-VA, but why?
For 30 years people could unofficially enjoy other drum kits in GM mode, but here comes Roland User and claims that nobody should have the ability to use any other drum kit in GM besides the Standard kit.
Moreover, you stated that GM should be locked to SC-55 sounds.
Last edited by James-F on 2016-5-20 @ 10:05, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-20 @ 08:43

James-F
I'm told , what General MIDI standard level 1 and only GM Level 1 have only one drumset.
If not, show the official specification General MIDI Level 1, which states that it can appear out of nowhere drum kits which it is not.
And please do not be rude ... my obstinacy may sound idiotic, but I still want that corresponds to it was the same as in GM layout, otherwise why there is only one set of drums in specification?
Applied to SC-55 , known whats this device interprets the GM Reset as GS Reset and not available pure GM mode.
I gues whats analogue as and SC-55 this problem have and CM-300 / CM-500 devices and perhaps part devices in SC-88 series.
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-20 @ 09:31

You probably don't understand the word "UNOFFICIALLY", please google it.

Notice that it is already two pages of answering your claims (not questions), in which all of them are wrong.
I keep answering you for the sake of other people so that they will not take your claims as a fact (as you portray them).
If you are in reality as you are on the internet , you are doomed. I'm serious.
Maybe you should try to Ask before you Claim?

I simply don't want one thick, clueless and self-righteous person ruining this informative thread which should be helpful to others and not misleading.
Last edited by James-F on 2016-5-20 @ 09:46, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-20 @ 09:45

James-F
I understand your point
I relied on information about SC-55 wherein will be said , what SC-55 and analogs not fully compatible with GM standard.
If you sure what is true what in GM maybe have unofficial mode for drum channel - i will not be you prove otherwise.

Thank you , good man )

What this ?
https://temp-share.com/f/tjolcdydqt/386 ... 7debc64211
This bug ? Or defect ? Frequency not variable if rotate regulator. Frequency variable change only if select extreme values
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-20 @ 13:50

Okay, you are talking about the master EQ.
This is not a bug nor a defect.
There are only two setting to the Low Freq 200Hz and 400Hz, and only two settings for High Freq 3kHz and 6kHz.
Everything is fine.

BTW, thanks for the thorough bugs checking.
May I suggest not sharing zip files from unknown sites, this can be a virus, no one is going to open them.
Please try to write in words or images.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-20 @ 14:11

Good )
When played some melody , have not ideal looping in instruments. Example
Please note on as played this melody and on end note play notes. It have not only choirs instruments , have similar errors and pianos , who you can hear in the composition 19 april

error loop-10 in zip file - include Caviar.mid with boost volume )

I'm abou yndetermined clicks )
Attachments
files2.zip
Other instruments
(1.53 MiB) Downloaded 30 times
files.zip
(1012.63 KiB) Downloaded 32 times
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby James-F » 2016-5-20 @ 14:34

Your CAVIAR midi file is flawed, that is why you get these click noises at some notes.
I've opened the midi file in my DAW and there are two exactly the same notes one on top of the other when the click happen.
Again, your midi file is flawed.

Can't you test this yourself?
What does it have to do with SC-VA? Your question completely unrelated to SC-VA or the Marvel forum.
User avatar
James-F
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: 2015-11-30 @ 04:10

Re: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

Postby Roland User » 2016-5-20 @ 14:44

Thanks.
Caviar.mid converted from caviar.mod in mod2midi converter.
Earlier on synthesizers this is I've never heard.
First . where i is heard , it 19 april and only SC-VA , therefore I asked.
Typically , this I did notice on the bad SoundFonts banks.

James-F
Some instruments do not respond to Velocity , is this normal ?
For example this patches Percusive Organ and more of the organ section... If you change values in velocity parameters per Percusive Organ - sound will not change.

Returning to the subject of General MIDI Level 1 mode
For example of told about General MIDI drum sets.
In game Comanche 3 Gold all music GM and GS drum sets... But i've be sure what MIDI files in game written for SCC-1 or SC-55 sound modules... It was , till the moment until I heard the music on the SC-VA then i understand what music be writen for SC-88 sound module. Please . play files theme 3.zip in different modes. In music have different only drum channel,

I think , question of General MIDI Level 1 standart better ask in Roland. Answer from Roland will be all clarify.
Attachments
theme 3.zip
(12.63 KiB) Downloaded 25 times
test.zip
If in this file variabled value Velocity to down or up , sound Percusive Orang not variated.
(673 Bytes) Downloaded 27 times
Roland User
Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 2016-3-27 @ 13:39

PreviousNext

Return to Sound

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: hasnopants and 2 guests