Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby Tertz » 2016-5-24 @ 12:47

archsan wrote:Anyways, considering it's not exactly a quality SB-pro compatible card I'm replacing (ISA Aztech SG NX something), I think I wouldn't complain to be honest.


As most Win9x games seem to use 22 KHz samples, I doubt you'd find YMF with good codec and lineout singificantly worse than any other card. Maybe, making direct comparision with headphones/normal accoustics (not that small near computers), you'd notice the difference if listen music on 256 kbit/s mp3. Branded YMF cards with 9704/9708/other not bad codec should be close to quality level of integrated sound in MBs of 2000s. It's ok for casual using, while for hq music a card costing 2x-.. more may to be better, certainly.
Low IMD param probably relates to 44.1->48 SRC problem, what can be overcome partly.

There's also a YMF744B-R but it doesn't have the PC/PCI connector. I have an ASUS P2B with SB-Link which I'd like to try. I'll post some photos after I received the card.


If you'll find games which have issues with SB-Link, would be interesting to list them here.
Tertz
Oldbie
 
Posts: 792
Joined: 2015-1-22 @ 21:44

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby Stretch » 2016-8-23 @ 01:16

Tertz, do you know of a translated GUI for YMF7x4Utilities ?

I was able to use the program to enable FM MIDI output on my YMF-744 under Windows 98SE, so now I can play MIDI with FM or the XG Synth.

I am curious what else I can do with this program.
Attachments
YMF-744 FM Midi.png
Yamaha YMF-744 FM Output Enabled
YMF-744 FM Midi.png (3.67 KiB) Viewed 959 times
Win98SE - Intel SE440BX-2 - Pentium II 233 Mhz - 256 MB System Ram - Voodoo 3 1000 AGP - Yamaha YMF-724 PCI - Soundblaster 32 ISA
Stretch
Member
 
Posts: 271
Joined: 2013-11-16 @ 00:57

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby SaxxonPike » 2016-8-25 @ 13:17

This is a most excellent guide! I just got one of these working under Windows. Legacy and wavetable blocks both work wonderfully.

I'm curious, though. The pinout of the PC/PCI header is known, but is there anywhere on the motherboard that we can tap into these signals? I'm assuming that these signals are not available on the PCI bus. (If they were, I'd think those would have been used in the first place.) I am curious because of the possibility of rigging up a PC/PCI connection on motherboards that don't have one.
User avatar
SaxxonPike
Member
 
Posts: 200
Joined: 2004-9-08 @ 20:04
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby stamasd » 2016-8-25 @ 13:37

SaxxonPike wrote:This is a most excellent guide! I just got one of these working under Windows. Legacy and wavetable blocks both work wonderfully.

I'm curious, though. The pinout of the PC/PCI header is known, but is there anywhere on the motherboard that we can tap into these signals? I'm assuming that these signals are not available on the PCI bus. (If they were, I'd think those would have been used in the first place.) I am curious because of the possibility of rigging up a PC/PCI connection on motherboards that don't have one.


The signals are on dedicated pins on Intel chipsets up to ICH5. If the motherboard manufacturer chose to connect those pins to traces and bring them out, you can use them. If not, no. Most of the times if they're connected there will be a PCPCI connector on the motherboard, but sometimes you'll find only a footprint for the connector without header soldered (I have 2 such motherboards, and I confirmed that the PCPCI link works after soldering headers myself).

If the motherboard manufacturer didn't provide traces from those southbridge signals you're SOL. Adding them would involve desoldering the southbridge chip, reballing it, adding somehow output wires under the BGA package to the relevant pads, and resoldering the reballed BGA southbridge. Unless you have specialized equipment, that is beyond hobbyist capabilities.

No, those signals are not connected to anything else on the motherboard as they aren't used for anything else. The pins are dedicated to PCPCI signalling.
I/O, I/O,
It's off to disk I go,
With a bit and a byte
And a read and a write,
I/O, I/O
stamasd
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: 2014-8-31 @ 19:59
Location: Connecticut

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby Zup » 2016-9-01 @ 13:20

I've read the first post, but I'm lost.

My computer is a Toshiba Satellite Pro 4340. I've questioned PCI about the hardware, and it says:

Code: Select all
00:0c.0 Multimedia audio controller [0401]: Yamaha Corporation YMF-744B [DS-1S Audio Controller] [1073:0010] (rev 02)


I've installed MS-DOS 6.22, Windows 98SE and Puppy Linux 4.31. I've loaded Windows drivers and it works, but now I'd like to have sound on DOS. Using Windows drivers, the way to have sound is booting into Windows and re-booting into DOS (or playing DOS games through Windows).

My question: Can I use those DOS drivers to run that Yamaha 744B without starting Windows 98?I don't know how is the card connected. Obviously is an integrated card using a PCI bus, but I don't know if it has also SB-Link, DDMA or another auxiliar connection. Is there any way to know that? If it is connected, the connection will be a trace on the motherboard... not anything obvious or easy to see.
I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!
User avatar
Zup
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: 2003-10-04 @ 12:16

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby Kamerat » 2016-9-01 @ 16:01

Zup wrote:I've read the first post, but I'm lost.

My computer is a Toshiba Satellite Pro 4340. I've questioned PCI about the hardware, and it says:

Code: Select all
00:0c.0 Multimedia audio controller [0401]: Yamaha Corporation YMF-744B [DS-1S Audio Controller] [1073:0010] (rev 02)


I've installed MS-DOS 6.22, Windows 98SE and Puppy Linux 4.31. I've loaded Windows drivers and it works, but now I'd like to have sound on DOS. Using Windows drivers, the way to have sound is booting into Windows and re-booting into DOS (or playing DOS games through Windows).

My question: Can I use those DOS drivers to run that Yamaha 744B without starting Windows 98?I don't know how is the card connected. Obviously is an integrated card using a PCI bus, but I don't know if it has also SB-Link, DDMA or another auxiliar connection. Is there any way to know that? If it is connected, the connection will be a trace on the motherboard... not anything obvious or easy to see.

Have a look at DOSSTART.BAT in your Windows directory to see where drivers are located and how til initialize it. Use SETUPDS.EXE to change between DDMA and PC/PCI, if there's silence in games when you choose PC/PCI your YMF744B is probably not connected via it.
User avatar
Kamerat
Oldbie
 
Posts: 704
Joined: 2014-3-14 @ 19:09
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby j^aws » 2016-9-02 @ 01:30

Zup wrote:My question: Can I use those DOS drivers to run that Yamaha 744B without starting Windows 98?I don't know how is the card connected. Obviously is an integrated card using a PCI bus, but I don't know if it has also SB-Link, DDMA or another auxiliar connection. Is there any way to know that? If it is connected, the connection will be a trace on the motherboard... not anything obvious or easy to see.


To boot straight into MSDOS instead of Win9x, edit MSDOS.SYS:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/118579
It's a hidden and read-only file, so change flags to update, then reset flags. You need to modify the BootGUI option from 1 to 0.

You can clean the DOSSTART.BAT file, and setup AUTOEXEC.BAT instead. Use these instructions to guide you:
viewtopic.php?p=444122#p444122
Finally, if you see PCPCI option not available in SETUPDS, then SB-Link isn't configured correctly.
j^aws
Oldbie
 
Posts: 588
Joined: 2013-2-02 @ 19:39
Location: UK

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby Zup » 2016-9-03 @ 12:42

I'm going through DOS driver installation, with some success. Just to remember, my computer is a Toshiba Satellite Pro 4340 (YMF744B), and I've installed MS-DOS 6.22, Windows 98SE and Puppy Linux (4.31). Toshiba BIOS don't let me change/reserve any port/IRQ/DMA channel.

The drivers installed on Windows 98SE were downloaded from Toshiba web, and they did NOT include any DOS driver (so no luck with DOSSTART.BAT). After that, I downloaded Yamaha DOS drivers (3.16) from their page. Interesting... who could think that wrapping DOS drivers into a WINDOWS installer was a good idea?

After unpacking and copying those drivers, I've found:
- After a cold boot, drivers won't work.
- After a warm boot from Linux, drivers in DOS won't work. In both cases, setupds complains with message "Codec might not be connected".
- After a warm boot from Windows 98SE, sound will work. After that, every warm boot will have sound enabled (until cold boot and/or going to Linux).

Setupds allows me to choose any option, so now I've got to find if PC-PCI and DDMA works.

Are there any way to make those drivers works on a cold boot? It seems that Windows 98SE drivers initialize something on the codec that is not initialized on DOS. Is there any program that can fully initialize my sound card?
I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!
User avatar
Zup
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: 2003-10-04 @ 12:16

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby j^aws » 2016-9-03 @ 13:52

^^ Post here the entire contents of MSDOS.SYS, DOSSTART.BAT, AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS.

Did you follow my instructions above?
j^aws
Oldbie
 
Posts: 588
Joined: 2013-2-02 @ 19:39
Location: UK

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby kanecvr » 2016-9-03 @ 14:14

I really wish these cards came with a TSR for wavetable midi in DOS.
User avatar
kanecvr
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1957
Joined: 2015-4-22 @ 20:30
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby j^aws » 2016-9-03 @ 14:40

kanecvr wrote:I really wish these cards came with a TSR for wavetable midi in DOS.

Yes, that would make it a more complete card. However, I bypass this issue with external MIDI synths, which are more flexible.
j^aws
Oldbie
 
Posts: 588
Joined: 2013-2-02 @ 19:39
Location: UK

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby SaxxonPike » 2016-9-03 @ 15:40

kanecvr wrote:I really wish these cards came with a TSR for wavetable midi in DOS.

When in Windows, I just set the sound device to General Midi and the YMF724 plays wavetable. I use this to switch between that and FM. Does this not work in DOS also?
User avatar
SaxxonPike
Member
 
Posts: 200
Joined: 2004-9-08 @ 20:04
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby Stretch » 2016-9-03 @ 16:03

Only FM in MS-DOS for YMF7x4, unless as previously stated using external MIDI.
Win98SE - Intel SE440BX-2 - Pentium II 233 Mhz - 256 MB System Ram - Voodoo 3 1000 AGP - Yamaha YMF-724 PCI - Soundblaster 32 ISA
Stretch
Member
 
Posts: 271
Joined: 2013-11-16 @ 00:57

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby SaxxonPike » 2016-9-03 @ 16:11

Stretch wrote:Only FM in MS-DOS for YMF7x4, unless as previously stated using external MIDI.

Ah, that's unfortunate. Does this mean the wavetable isn't actually on the card ROM?
User avatar
SaxxonPike
Member
 
Posts: 200
Joined: 2004-9-08 @ 20:04
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby dondiego » 2016-9-03 @ 16:27

Zup wrote:After a warm boot from Windows 98SE, sound will work

Any option in bios to set non pnp os?
User avatar
dondiego
Member
 
Posts: 244
Joined: 2013-12-24 @ 12:31
Location: Spain

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby gdjacobs » 2016-9-03 @ 21:10

SaxxonPike wrote:
Stretch wrote:Only FM in MS-DOS for YMF7x4, unless as previously stated using external MIDI.

Ah, that's unfortunate. Does this mean the wavetable isn't actually on the card ROM?


I suspect only partly in hardware.
User avatar
gdjacobs
l33t
 
Posts: 4891
Joined: 2015-11-03 @ 05:51
Location: The Great White North

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby Zup » 2016-9-04 @ 11:03

OK, maybe I was not clear enough and that lead to some misunderstandings. I've installed DOS, Windows and Puppy on different partitions, so my partition table is something like that:

Code: Select all
/dev/sda1 - FAT 16, MS-DOS 6.22, about 1.8Gb
/dev/sda2 - FAT 32, Windows 98SE, about 5.5 Gb
/dev/sda3 - ext2, Puppy Linux 4.31 (complete install), about 2 Gb
/dev/sda4 - swap


BIOS:

Puppy Linux:
Sound works fine.

Windows 98:
Sound works fine.

The device manager shows two related devices:

Code: Select all
YAMAHA DS-XG Legacy Sound System
YAMAHA DS-XG PCI Audio CODEC


The legacy sound system is configured at port 220, IRQ 5 and DMA 1. Also shows ports 388 (OPL), 330 (MIDI, but my computer has no MIDI output) and 8000 (D-DMA port). There are no conflicts.

The drivers installed are those found on Toshiba web - Windows 95/98 Sound Driver for Yamaha DS-XG (5968). They DON'T include DOS drivers, so there is no setupds.exe on Windows partition. I also haven't found DOSSTART.BAT anywhere.

The files you requested:

Code: Select all
MSDOS.SYS:

[Paths]
WinDir=C:\WINDOWS
WinBootDir=C:\WINDOWS
HostWinBootDrv=C

[Options]
BootMulti=1
BootGUI=1
DoubleBuffer=1
AutoScan=1
WinVer=4.10.2222
;
;The following lines are required for compatibility with other programs.
;Do not remove them (MSDOS.SYS needs to be >1024 bytes).
;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxa
...


Code: Select all
CONFIG.SYS:

device=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\display.sys con=(ega,,1)
Country=034,850,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\country.sys
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\Panning.SYS


Code: Select all
AUTOEXEC.BAT:

mode con codepage prepare=((850) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ega.cpi)
mode con codepage select=850
keyb sp,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\keyboard.sys


MS-DOS:

Sound only works after starting Windows 98SE and doing a warm boot. Every warm boot after that, the sound works.

I've configured it with the same ports as in Windows 98SE, but I've disabled JOY PORT ADDRESS (my laptop has no joystick port). I've left MPU enabled because I don't know if that card can play MIDI on DOS.

Some configuration files...

Code: Select all
CONFIG.SYS:

DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
BUFFERS=15,0
FILES=30
DOS=UMB
LASTDRIVE=E
FCBS=4,0
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,12192 =C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DOS=HIGH
COUNTRY=034,,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,15872 =C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,5792 =C:\DRV\UIDE\BIN\UIDEJR.SYS /D:CDROM /N1


Code: Select all
AUTOEXEC.BAT

LH /L:0;2,45968 /S C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\DOS;C:\BAT
SET TEMP=C:\DOS
MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((850) C:\DOS\EGA.CPI)
MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=850
LH /L:2,17312 KEYB SP,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
LH /L:0;1,3104 /S c:\drv\ctmouse\bin\ctm-es.exe /p
rem LH /L:2,27952 mscdex /D:CDROM
LH /L:0;1,6304 /S c:\drv\shsucdx\bin\shsucdx /D:CDROM
c:\drv\ymf744\setupds /s
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
rem c:\drv\ymf744\dsdma


Forget about SETVER, COUNTRY and SMARTDRV... I'll do a cleanup after sound is working. DSDMA is commented because it hangs my system.

Code: Select all
DS.INI:

LEGEN=1
SBIO=0
SBIRQ=0
SBDMA=1
MPUIO=0
MPUIRQ=0
JOYIO=4
INTAIRQ=11
IRQMODE=2
DMAMODE=0
FIRSTTRY=0
SLAVEBASE=0
SLAVEADDR=0
LEGMAS=77
VOICE=77
FM=77
MASTER=0
MONO=8000
PCBEEP=8000
PHONE=8008
MIC=8008
LINE=8808
CD=8808
VIDEO=8808
AUX=8808
PCM=808
SBFILE=YMH8.WAV
NAFILE=YMH16.WAV
FMFILE=YMH.MID
PIRQRC=0
LOADTSR=1
IRQSHARE=0


After some tests:
- 4D Stunts: Sound blaster - works fine.
- Bumpy: Adlib - works fine.
- F-19 Stealth Fighter: Adlib - works fine.
- Jill of the Jungle: Sound blaster - music & fx works fine.
- Duke Nukem 2: Sound blaster - music & fx works fine.
- Lotus III: Divide overflow - maybe CPU is too fast?
- Xquest 2: Sound Blaster - works fine.
- Zone 66: Don't work with HIMEM.SYS. When launched without HIMEM, the computer resets.
- Commander Keen: First episodes doesn't seem to have Adlib/SB sound. Episodes 4 & 5 works fine.
- Pinball Dreams 2: Sound Blaster Pro - works fine.

Note that I should do some tests with MIDI games (i.e.: Duke Nukem 3D, ROTT), but results are better than expected.

As I stated before sound works after Windows 98 SE initializes the sound card, but not when I cold boot the computer. I wonder if there is some kind of program that could initialize that card so I don't have to boot and reboot to get it working.
I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!
User avatar
Zup
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: 2003-10-04 @ 12:16

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby Kamerat » 2016-9-04 @ 16:11

Maybe you should try to change the value of FIRSTTRY in DS.INI from 0 to 1 and then reboot to let SETUPDS automatically reconfigure.

Another thing you can try is to change the PCI IRQ of your YMF before running SETUPDS, it can be done with YMFIRQ utility in this driver package: http://vsynchmame.mameworld.info/ymf724_dos.zip
User avatar
Kamerat
Oldbie
 
Posts: 704
Joined: 2014-3-14 @ 19:09
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby j^aws » 2016-9-04 @ 22:19

Zup wrote:As I stated before sound works after Windows 98 SE initializes the sound card, but not when I cold boot the computer. I wonder if there is some kind of program that could initialize that card so I don't have to boot and reboot to get it working.


Thanks for posting all the info.

Which partition do you want to boot into? FAT32 with DOS 7.1, or FAT16 with DOS 6.22?

Do you currently have two AUTOEXEC.BAT files in each partition?

Is SETUPDS installed in each partition?
j^aws
Oldbie
 
Posts: 588
Joined: 2013-2-02 @ 19:39
Location: UK

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Postby Zup » 2016-9-05 @ 13:34

After changing FIRSTTRY to 1, it worked. It showed the config program the first time, but now it works anytime I start the computer.

I've checked some other games...

- Chex: Sound Blaster and Adlib works fine.
- Prince: It runs, but after starting the game a note "hangs" (maybe faulty copy?).
- Rise of the Triad: Sound blaster, works fine.
- X-Wing: Soudn Blaster and Adlib options works in setup, game doesn't work (another faulty copy?).
- Terminal Velocity: Sound Blaster, works fine.
- Jazz Jackrabbit CD and Traffic Department 2192: Runtime Error 200. Definitely a CPU speed problem.
- Skyroads: Works fine.
- Wolf 3D: Sound Blaster, works fine.
- TFX: Sound Blaster, works fine. I thought that music should be played from CD-ROM but it plays FM music.

I've disabled both MIDI and joystick port (because my computer have no external MIDI/joystick port). DSDMA.EXE don't work, it hangs my computer but I think I don't need to load it. Also I've got a FMMIDI.EXE program... what does it do? I've tried to run it but give me errors.

I do not plan to use DOS games on Windows partition, unless they don't work in pure plain DOS. Windows 98SE have Toshiba drivers that do NOT include DOS drivers (so no SETUPDS.EXE in Windows 98). Each partition has its own CONFIG.SYS/AUTOEXEC.BAT pair.
I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!
User avatar
Zup
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: 2003-10-04 @ 12:16

PreviousNext

Return to Sound

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests