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PCI Sound card for Windows 3.11 & Dos 6.22?

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First post, by magicmanred

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I've got a few questions about particular sound card compatibility...

So I've got a situation where the only type of sound card I can have is a PCI sound card.
I currently have an SB Live! Value PCI.
I have the LiveDos emulator files and I got them working flawlessly with no IRQ conflicts.
Attempting to LH (load high) the SBEINIT.COM causes a reboot... so I just load it to conventional memory (5k isn't so bad).

Unfortunately, windows 3.xx will not work with this emulator. I have the full SB16 software installed and it doesn't work.

[EDIT] Is it possible to get the CT4740 card to work in Windows 3.1?
Or any PCI Sound Blaster for that matter?

I am only looking for responses from people that have knowledge on any PCI sound cards that will work in dos & windows 3.xx.
I'm looking for sound, midi & cd-audio capability. Not anything fancy.

Currently, I am fully aware that for Dos compatibility, ISA sound cards are the way to go. Especially for windows 3.xx.
I am also aware of the Sound Blaster PCI dos emulator drivers. I currently have one up and running on a PCI SB Live! successfully.
Also, I know that the SB16 is quite an awesome all-rounder for Dos and Windows 3.xx.

[EDIT] Questions:
• Is there any way to get the PCI SB Live! to work in Win 3.xx? (Tonight, I am going to try to run the dos emulator, then install Sound Blaster 1.5 drivers in win3.xx and see if that'll play well)
• Is the ISA Sound Blaster AWE 64 (CT4500 or 4520 or 4550... or even the Gold) compatible in Windows 3.xx? If so, where could I find the Dos & Win3.xx drivers for it? Or does it use SB16 drivers?
• Is the Sound Blaster 16 PCI compatible in Dos and Win 3.xx? If so, where could I find the drivers for both?
• What PCI sound card (if any other than mentioned) is confirmed to work in Dos and Win3.xx?

Just looking for answers if any.

I'm not looking for anyone saying things such as:
"just get an ISA motherboard"
"just use dosbox"
That isn't the purpose of my post.

Thank you in advance! 🤣

Last edited by magicmanred on 2016-07-16, 18:39. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 2 of 63, by jesolo

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Speaking from my personal experience (and owning a Sound Blaster Live! Value myself, which I bought in late 2000).
These cards were all released around the time just when Windows 98 was released to the market, with drivers for Windows 9x & NT4.
To ensure compatiblity in MS-DOS mode (for Windows 9x operating systems), Creative also released a utility (as you've stated) that enabled Sound Blaster emulation in a "real" MS-DOS environment.
This was actually based on technology from Ensoniq, which Creative bought in 1998.

So, although you will probably get your Sound Blaster Live! to operate under an MS-DOS environment (due to the above mentioned untiliy), I don't recall Creative ever releasing Windows 3.1x drivers for any of their PCI based sound cards. The Sound Blaster 16 driver you mentioned is probably for a standard ISA based Sound Blaster 16, which will not work with a Sound Blaster Live!.
I'm speaking under correction, but I think this has more to do with (the lack of) PCI support under Windows 3.1x. However, it's been some time that I've worked under Windows 3.1x.

Reply 3 of 63, by Jorpho

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Davros wrote:

why are you using sb16 software with a live?

I presume it's because it's supposed to act like an SB16 card in DOS and with all other DOS software.

But I understand SBEINIT.COM uses some wild protected-mode trickery, and I wouldn't expect it to worth with Win 3.xx.

I'm pretty sure you'll need an older Ensoniq AudioPCI card for that.
Ensoniq / Creative AudioPCI

Reply 4 of 63, by Jo22

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The normal SoundBlaster 1.5 driver which comes with Win 3.1 *could* work (depends on how good emulation is).
It doesn't use any 386 magic and works fine in 16bit protected mode (it must, because it works on a 286 machine).
At least it once worked for me when I tested it with a PCI card's SB emulation.

Edit: To get official SB16 drivers working is much more tricky! It was a aready a nightmare to get them working in Win-OS/2 on a real CT1740 (!)
Even DOSBox has/had its issues with them (ever tried to playback wave music at 16Bit Stereo 44khz?).
The only non-creative devices I was able to get them working so far, were on-board sound cards, like those for the MediaGX systems.

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Reply 5 of 63, by Jorpho

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As I mentioned earlier, I believe the Ensoniq AudioPCI cards are the way to go. Creative bought out Ensoniq and used their cards as the basis for the PCI Sound Blaster line, but apparently the drivers are not as good.

Reply 6 of 63, by magicmanred

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Thanks for all the help thus far guys. My searches continue!

Jo22 wrote:
The normal SoundBlaster 1.5 driver which comes with Win 3.1 *could* work (depends on how good emulation is). It doesn't use any […]
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The normal SoundBlaster 1.5 driver which comes with Win 3.1 *could* work (depends on how good emulation is).
It doesn't use any 386 magic and works fine in 16bit protected mode (it must, because it works on a 286 machine).
At least it once worked for me when I tested it with a PCI card's SB emulation.

Edit: To get official SB16 drivers working is much more tricky! It was a aready a nightmare to get them working in Win-OS/2 on a real CT1740 (!)
Even DOSBox has/had its issues with them (ever tried to playback wave music at 16Bit Stereo 44khz?).
The only non-creative devices I was able to get them working so far, were on-board sound cards, like those for the MediaGX systems.

Interesting... I take it I could just go to Control Panel, Drivers, Add, then add the "Creative Labs Sound Blaster 1.5" and load from my Win 3.xx disks?
I'm going to try that when I get home.
It would be amazing if the SB16 software would then work once that's done.

I'll tinker and report back.

In the meantime, any confirmed success with PCI sound cards in win 3.xx would be great to hear about!

Reply 8 of 63, by adalbert

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Yes, ESS Solo-1 works under DOS and Win 3.1. It also has true FM music synthesis. I use that on a Pentium 3 laptop, Presario 1800.

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Reply 9 of 63, by magicmanred

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Jorpho wrote:

As I mentioned earlier, I believe the Ensoniq AudioPCI cards are the way to go. Creative bought out Ensoniq and used their cards as the basis for the PCI Sound Blaster line, but apparently the drivers are not as good.

So would the Sound Blaster AudioPCI work? Is that the same card?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/282091007879?_trksid= … K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Reply 10 of 63, by magicmanred

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adalbert wrote:

Yes, ESS Solo-1 works under DOS and Win 3.1. It also has true FM music synthesis. I use that on a Pentium 3 laptop, Presario 1800.

Is this what you guys are talking about?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DCS-S81X-SF-S819-Soun … SkAAOxy3HJTHUBd

Also... where would I plug the CD-Audio cable for Dos games that use CD-Audio tracks for music?

This would be fantastic if it works!
Where would I be able to download the software/drivers for it?

Reply 11 of 63, by magicmanred

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For the ESS Solo-1...

I don't know how to phrase the following question... so bare with me;
If this card is configured correctly in DOS... then what sound card would I select in dos games? "Sound Blaster 16" ? Pro? Plain? What about for music?

Reply 12 of 63, by Jorpho

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magicmanred wrote:

Also... where would I plug the CD-Audio cable for Dos games that use CD-Audio tracks for music?

It's pretty easy to see the headers in the picture.

magicmanred wrote:

so bare with me

http://writingexplained.org/bear-with-me-or-b … h-me-difference

If this card is configured correctly in DOS... then what sound card would I select in dos games? "Sound Blaster 16" ? Pro? Plain? What about for music?

Presumably SB16. It wouldn't be much good otherwise.

Reply 13 of 63, by Kamerat

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Jorpho wrote:
magicmanred wrote:

If this card is configured correctly in DOS... then what sound card would I select in dos games? "Sound Blaster 16" ? Pro? Plain? What about for music?

Presumably SB16. It wouldn't be much good otherwise.

No, for Solo-1 just SB PRO. Just a few PCI "clone" cards have SB16 compability, like the Trident 4DWave.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 14 of 63, by magicmanred

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Easy to see headers.
But you can't see what they are for.
If there is one for CD, and you are sure... then thanks.

Thanks for bearing with my oversight of spelling/grammar and correcting me in the event that someone didn't know what I meant in that sentence. And just to be even more clear, I do not have a "bear" with me 😉 I think it would be pretty difficult to type in that scenario. 😳

So to answer the more important questions that I asked:
Is the ESS Solo-1 that I provided in the link the card that was mentioned? May I assume that would work once drivers are setup correctly?

If so, where may one acquire the software/drivers?

Thanks!

Reply 15 of 63, by magicmanred

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Kamerat wrote:
Jorpho wrote:
magicmanred wrote:

If this card is configured correctly in DOS... then what sound card would I select in dos games? "Sound Blaster 16" ? Pro? Plain? What about for music?

Presumably SB16. It wouldn't be much good otherwise.

No, for Solo-1 just SB PRO. Just a few PCI "clone" cards have SB16 compability, like the Trident 4DWave.

Ah.

So the Trident 4DWave is PCI and has SB16 compatibility.
What other PCI cards have SB16 compatibility?

And do/would these cards work in Windows 3.xx?

This would be very helpful!
-M

Reply 16 of 63, by magicmanred

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I've heard that the Sound Blasters with ES chips (ES137x) are compatible... does anyone know about these?

Would love to know if this one could simulate SB16 in dos and work under Win3.xx

http://www.ebay.com/itm/282091007879?_trksid= … K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Reply 17 of 63, by Jorpho

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Kamerat wrote:

No, for Solo-1 just SB PRO. Just a few PCI "clone" cards have SB16 compability, like the Trident 4DWave.

Whoops. Duly noted. (Can't say I've heard of the Trident 4DWave before.)

magicmanred wrote:

Easy to see headers.
But you can't see what they are for.
If there is one for CD, and you are sure... then thanks.

It's hard to imagine what else they might be for. If you want to be absolutely sure, I would suggest Googling for a manual or for pictures that offer a better angle.

...If all else fails, you can always try to get a CD-ROM drive that has its own audio jack, and then plug that into the Line In plug of your soundcard using a standard 3.5 mm audio cable.

magicmanred wrote:

I've heard that the Sound Blasters with ES chips (ES137x) are compatible... does anyone know about these?

Considering those would be the same cards discussed in the thread I linked to in my earlier post, yes, someone probably knows about those.

Reply 18 of 63, by Kamerat

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magicmanred wrote:
Ah. […]
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Ah.

So the Trident 4DWave is PCI and has SB16 compatibility.
What other PCI cards have SB16 compatibility?

And do/would these cards work in Windows 3.xx?

This would be very helpful!
-M

I don't know about the Windows 3.xx compatibility of the 4DWave, but for DOS usage I wouldn't recommend it due to the lack of real FM synth (emulated through wavetable) and bad wavetable (It often plays piano instead of the instrument it should. Too bad as it's the only sound card I know of that can use .SF2 sound banks in DOS).

I looked through the specs of the ALS4000 and it lists SB16 compability but I don't know if Windows 3.xx drivers exists.

What kind of hardware are you running Windows 3.xx on?

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 19 of 63, by kithylin

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I've tried searching and scouring the internet for years and years and years. And ultimately I've come to the conclusion that there's virtually no PCI sound card that is 100% completely compatible in ms-dos and provides full wavetable midi sound (Like Creative AWE32/64, GUS, ETC), and is compatible with windows 3.xx, It just doesn't exist and never was created and you're stuck with ISA cards and ISA systems, usually end of story.

Unless someone else out there has found some information I don't know about. I'm not the best at googling.