Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby Jo22 » 2016-8-17 @ 08:02

PARUS wrote:I told not about native OPL3 but S/PDIF. But if you want digital OPL nobody disturbs to try change 64Gold to AWE32. AWE32 plays FM by S/PDIF.

I once saw a youtube video about it. Someone attached an LED to it in order have Toslink support (optical S/PDIF).
Can't remember whether this was a SB32 or an AWE32, though. I only remember that this was somehow related to TTL compatibility (to drive the LED).
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby PARUS » 2016-8-17 @ 12:42

Oh God! TTL is only amplitude size (volts) which is 2-5 volts usually. COAX is 0,5-1 v. TTL and COAX are both S/PDIF signals. Place resistors correctly (or spdif bracket) and you'll get COAX from TTL. There is no problem.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby ZanQuance » 2016-8-17 @ 12:57

I just finished coding a new DOS mixer utility for the Aureal Vortex 2 cards, It will let you output on the S/PDIF in DOS now.
So this might be a potential solution as well for you, they are PCI boards though. If you want to test it, it's over in the new releases group linky.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby gdjacobs » 2016-8-17 @ 15:26

PARUS wrote:Oh God! TTL is only amplitude size (volts) which is 2-5 volts usually. COAX is 0,5-1 v. TTL and COAX are both S/PDIF signals. Place resistors correctly (or spdif bracket) and you'll get COAX from TTL. There is no problem.


Some coax inputs (like my receivers) accept TTL level signals. This makes connecting CD-ROM drives as CD audio transports dead easy. :cool:
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby PARUS » 2016-8-18 @ 19:36

OK. I see you all didn't understand me. I solved this problem 100%. Analog sources like daughterboards/mt32 etc are working by ADC->S/PDIF. Now I'll show my connecting scheme:
Image
I use ISA riser. AWE64 Gold can be changed to any AWE32 or Goldfinch.
Here is resource allocation:
Image
or
Image
IRQ9 is used by SoftMPU for getting IRQ2. But main is S/PDIF here!
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby PARUS » 2016-8-18 @ 20:20

ZanQuance, great work! Thank you! When I'll find a time I'll try it. I want to ask you about DOS mixers :)

As I found there is only the card which has TWO spdif in channels that can work both simultaneously. It's a Live! card. (Audigy1/2 are too but now we have not at least spdif out working in DOS.) I checked in Windows, both IN channels are playing from their connected spdif sources at the same time. The sound is good. Now the question: is it possible to enable both them in pure DOS? If it will be reality we'll can get much more with digital sound in pure DOS. Only one nuisance poisons the joy - EMM386, many thanks to Crazy Creative.

So, would you like to think about enabling two S/PDIF IN channels on SB Live! cards in pure DOS? It would be great.
I offer my S/PDIF decision as most multi-format digital sound system in pure DOS (except some analog cards which haven't digital equals, like GUS, MT-32). And if we can change the AV310 to SB Live! we can get not one but two spdif in channels and able to mix different digital signals from other cards.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby PARUS » 2016-8-19 @ 10:34

For information: I have CT4670, SB0060, SB0220. CT4670 and SB0220 both play S/PDIF with newer driver. Parameter DigitalEnable=True/False from CTSYN.INI doesn't matter, S/PDIF is working always. SB0060 doesn't play S/PDIF, parameter DigitalEnable doesn't matter.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby ReeseRiverson » 2016-8-19 @ 11:51

I was on the same quest, myself. Even for my external midi devices through modification, if possible.

Though thus far, my end solution was my CT3980 with an S/PDIF header. ( https://www.facebook.com/ReeseRiversonP ... 5308849176 ) I utilize digital for all midi/OPL3 needs, and analog for everything else on the same card. Then run things through my Roland M-1000. ( https://twitter.com/reeseriverson/statu ... 3405305856 ) -(on my iPad all day, otherwise I would just properly post pictures I have.).

Now, the trick to keep the analog from outputting the same thIng as the S/PDIF output is quite simple. Under DOS for the sound blaster mixer, just mute/turn midi all the way down. And in games like Wacky Wheels, in the game setup, turn down the music to off. This only effects the mixer analog side. Digital is uneffected. :cool:

You can do the same for the AWE64 Gold, but with a slight risk of still having PCM slip through for anything that uses the 44.1khz 16-bit output. Though I'm not aware of any DOS game that does use that quality.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby PARUS » 2016-8-19 @ 12:45

I checked awe64 gold many times. Most of games (very many, all or almost all) don't use 16/44. And the only alternate «sb 16» for spdif is AV310. And SB Live too. But now we don't have working spdif in on it. AV310 has.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby ZanQuance » 2016-8-19 @ 14:11

PARUS wrote:ZanQuance, great work! Thank you! When I'll find a time I'll try it. I want to ask you about DOS mixers :)
[...]Now the question: is it possible to enable both them in pure DOS? If it will be reality we'll can get much more with digital sound in pure DOS. Only one nuisance poisons the joy - EMM386, many thanks to Crazy Creative.
So, would you like to think about enabling two S/PDIF IN channels on SB Live! cards in pure DOS? It would be great.

Thanks! I need the feedback on the utility to make fixes and improvements so that it supports the features everyone wants.

For modding the Live!'s, unfortunately I don't know much about the internal registers of the Live!'s well enough to do something like this. It should be possible though, not sure how well their DOS drivers play with multiple cards.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby PARUS » 2016-8-19 @ 18:47

There is no that thing at all which everyone wants.

DOS drivers play with multiple cards, why doubts? I have shown my picture with FOUR cards and they all work properly together. In pure DOS.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby ZanQuance » 2016-8-20 @ 06:14

PARUS wrote:There is no that thing at all which everyone wants.

Not a single universal want, but individual requested features which would be useful to the user.

PARUS wrote:DOS drivers play with multiple cards, why doubts? I have shown my picture with FOUR cards and they all work properly together. In pure DOS.

Are any of the cards you've shown PCI like the Live! is? I believe the PCI card drivers don't play nice with two of the same card.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby PARUS » 2016-8-21 @ 15:47

Well I did think if the current topic came at this site and people are shown so many interest in it... any good idea about uncommon S/PDIF in DOS will be welcome. But if it is not right so be it.

By the way I didn't think about stable work SB Live! and ISA cards together. Thank you for your note. Need to check!
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby Kamerat » 2016-9-08 @ 22:29

Wanted to test the SPDIF output of my Forté Media FM801-AU PCI sound card. My reciver detects a SPDIF signal of 44.1KHz when the CFG801.EXE DOS utility initializes the FM801 for MS-DOS use. Haven't tested it much, but worked nice with the few titles I tried.

The FM801 works best when running in DDMA mode, have a look at my compatibility chart "DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets": https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby Stretch » 2016-9-08 @ 23:00

Kamerat wrote:Wanted to test the SPDIF output of my Forté Media FM801-AU PCI sound card. My reciver detects a SPDIF signal of 44.1KHz when the CFG801.EXE DOS utility initializes the FM801 for MS-DOS use. Haven't tested it much, but worked nice with the few titles I tried.

The FM801 works best when running in DDMA mode, have a look at my compatibility chart "DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets": https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Which has better FM quality the ESS 1938 or CMI 8738?
PC1: Win98SE - Via Apollo Pro Mobo - Pentium II 233 - 256 MB - Voodoo 3 1000 - Soundblaster 32
PC2: Win98SE - ASRock 775i65G R3.0 - Celeron 2.2 GHz - 2048 MB - Geforce FX5700 - Vortex 2 - SBLive SB0100 - YMF744
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby Stretch » 2016-9-08 @ 23:06

Also, the CS4630 has CrystalClear Legacy
Support FM according to this pdf CS4630 - Cirrus Logic So I'm not sure it is emulation.

If someone has VxD drivers for a Fortissimo 3 I can see if there are FM ports exposed.
PC1: Win98SE - Via Apollo Pro Mobo - Pentium II 233 - 256 MB - Voodoo 3 1000 - Soundblaster 32
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby Kamerat » 2016-9-08 @ 23:15

Stretch wrote:
Kamerat wrote:Wanted to test the SPDIF output of my Forté Media FM801-AU PCI sound card. My reciver detects a SPDIF signal of 44.1KHz when the CFG801.EXE DOS utility initializes the FM801 for MS-DOS use. Haven't tested it much, but worked nice with the few titles I tried.

The FM801 works best when running in DDMA mode, have a look at my compatibility chart "DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets": https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Which has better FM quality the ESS 1938 or CMI 8738?

I haven't compared them and don't think my ears are the right ones to do so, but ESFM and CMI's FM should be some of the better ones.
Stretch wrote:Also, the CS4630 has CrystalClear Legacy
Support FM according to this pdf CS4630 - Cirrus Logic So I'm not sure it is emulation.

The CS4630's FM sound real shitty compared to those I listed as FM. The stereo mode of the FM doesn't work right too.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby PARUS » 2017-2-03 @ 22:08

ZanQuance wrote:
PARUS wrote:DOS drivers play with multiple cards, why doubts? I have shown my picture with FOUR cards and they all work properly together. In pure DOS.

Are any of the cards you've shown PCI like the Live! is? I believe the PCI card drivers don't play nice with two of the same card.

I've launched SB Live, Terratec EWS64 and GUS Ace together. The drivers are not conflicting. All cards play nice. In pure DOS.
I didn't mean "two same PCI cards", it is purposelessly.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby PARUS » 2017-4-10 @ 20:59

16colortiedye wrote:I'd like to put together a system for playing games in pure DOS (no Win9x) using 100% digital audio output over S/PDIF (that is, no D-A conversion until after the sound has left the system to an external interface).

For the highest fidelity and widest compatibility, the system would ideally include an OPL-based FM synth, a Roland Sound Canvas MIDI synth (via MPU-401 if necessary), and Sound Blaster-compatible stereo sound effects. But mainly, I just want to get FM, MIDI, and sound effects all over digital.

Is such a system even possible with existing ISA sound cards?


Now I finally made TWO active digital in channels on SB Live simultaneously! Look at this:
Image
The Live! revision is CT4670. As you see there are some cards that don't have digital connection at all. I've put them on analog in channels of Terratec EWS64XL (expect XR385, it has spdif mod by jwt27). Now I'm working on enabling all three analog inputs, both digital inputs, and digital output on all Live/Audigy cards in pure DOS.

Work in progress.
Last edited by PARUS on 2017-4-10 @ 21:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pure DOS gaming system with 100% digital audio output

Postby PARUS » 2017-4-10 @ 21:14

It is necessary to disable FM on GUS Ace and Terratec EWS64, and mute FM on SB Live!
FM will play from CT1747 on AWE32, true digital.

EWS64XL - IO=530 IO=220 IRQ=7 DMA=1 FM=100 MIDI1=300 MIDI2=320
AWE32 - IO=260 IRQ=9 DMA=3 DMA=6 FM=388 8k=640 MIDI=330
Live - IO=240 IRQ=5 DMA=0 DMA=5 FM=muted MIDI=any but (300, 320, 330)
GUS Ace - IO=250 IRQ=3 DMA=7 FM=disabled
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