Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby James-F » 2016-9-27 @ 12:03

PhilsComputerLab wrote:So how does this now compare to the ESS?

Way ahead of all DOS sound cards I have.
There is a small list on the previous page.

PhilsComputerLab wrote:Needing two hardware mods, well, it's great that solutions exist, but not everyone is into modding like that.

Well you know, there is no such thing as a free launch and no card is perfect.
At the end of THIS thread there is an adapter made by gerwin to fix that without hardware modding.
Since it IS a PCB error on the Audician 32 cards I decided to modify the PCB itself, others may build this adapter.
Last edited by James-F on 2016-9-27 @ 12:17, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby firage » 2016-9-27 @ 12:03

squareguy wrote:OK

Duke 3D 1.4 Atomic under sound test with real CT1600 and SBPro 2.0 selected in setup and reverse not checked the sound test plays left and right correctly

There are two versions of the CT1600 PCB. Is yours an early one copyrighted 1991 or the later 1992?
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby James-F » 2016-9-27 @ 12:04

firage wrote:There are two versions of the CT1600 PCB. Is yours an early one copyrighted 1991 or the later 1992?


Is it reversed on yours firage?
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby squareguy » 2016-9-27 @ 12:08

Is that PDIP8 Atmel chip an EEPROM? If so, maybe the 8-bit to 3-bit and 8-bit to 2-bit ADPCM is a software issue that is correctable?

EDIT: I will look at what revision I have today.
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby James-F » 2016-9-27 @ 12:58

SBPro 2.0 Sound Card Clones Stereo Summary

Audician 32 YMF71x:
Stereo in Doom and Duke3D is correct without reverse switch.
Wavetable wiring is reversed.
FM L/R is Correct with Adlib Tracker 2.

AudioDrive ES1688F:
Stereo in Doom and Duke3D is correct without reverse switch.
Wavetable wiring is reversed like the YMF71x.
FM L/R is Correct with Adlib Tracker 2.

Aztech Pro 16 ABI (2316-s):
Stereo in Doom and Duke3D is correct without reverse switch.
Wavetable wiring is correct.
FM L/R is Correct with Adlib Tracker 2.

Aztech NX Pro:
Stereo in Doom and Duke3D is REVERSED.
FM L/R is REVERSED with Adlib Tracker 2.
*** This one is strange, it sometimes reversed sometimes not.

More info about the stereo reverse issue: https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=50539

According to these articles the YMF71x and ES1688 have the wavetable header wired incorrectly.
http://www.epanorama.net/documents/pc/waveblaster.html
http://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/MIDImal-285418.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Wave_Blaster

The only correct way is: Pin24=Left, Pin20=Right on the daughterboard and the sound card.
All the SBPro2.0 clones I've tested have the exact same PCM/Voice L/R audio channel configuration, nothing is reversed.
squareguy and firage confirm that Creative SBPro2.0 CT1600 exhibits the same channel behavior as the clones.
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby firage » 2016-9-27 @ 13:40

James-F wrote:
firage wrote:There are two versions of the CT1600 PCB. Is yours an early one copyrighted 1991 or the later 1992?


Is it reversed on yours firage?

Well, I can tell you the Duke3D test (Atomic v1.4) gives two different results depending on whether the SB16 or SB Pro driver is selected. The 22 kHz SB16 configuration produces sound and it's reversed from the SB Pro at 22 kHz or 44 kHz. The SB16 setting is the wrong way around.

FM is fine; stereo OPL3 mode in Doom works as expected, the same as DOSBox or the SB16 CT2940.

This is the later PCB revision CT1600.
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby James-F » 2016-9-27 @ 14:02

firage wrote:This is the later PCB revision CT1600.

Thanks!
Then it's confirmed, everything is fine with the Stereo mode of the SBPro 2.0 and its clones.

Don't forget that the SBPro uses High-Speed DMA mode for its Stereo sound and has nothing to do with how the SB16 produces Stereo sound.
The anomaly in Duke3D setup utility when selecting SB16 using a SBPro2.0 card has no basis at all for judging or assuming that the SBPro2.0 channels are reversed, they are not.
I guess it depends on the release date of the game/software, but most popular games like Doom, Heretic, Hexen, Epic Pinball, Duke3D have correct Stereo sound with the SBPro2.0 and its clones.

EDIT:
I must add that comparing the SBPro FM Stereo sound by the Doom E1M1 OPL3 track in comparison to the MIDI is absolutely wrong! Doom has the OPL3 track reversed to the original MIDI.
To check for correct OPL3 Stereo FM sound use Adlib Tracker 2 where you can actually address and hear the Left and Right channels correctly.
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby badmojo » 2016-9-27 @ 21:03

PhilsComputerLab wrote:So how does this now compare to the ESS?

Needing two hardware mods, well, it's great that solutions exist, but not everyone is into modding like that.


+1 on that Phil, and considering the crappy OPLSAx software and the fact that they're mostly half height cards (cable required for full sized DB) I still think the AudioDrive comes out on top, but everyone's different :)
If it's broke, then fix it!
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby clueless1 » 2016-9-27 @ 21:33

Right. We all have our own opinions and ears. :) Personally, I prefer the stock sound of the Audician to that of the filter mod. But I think it's great that there are options for those who do want to add the filter.
The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby James-F » 2016-9-29 @ 09:54

WSS is like having a bug free SB16 with 16bit 44.1kHz in DOS which is great for games that support it.
BUT, if the game itself don't use 44.1kHz or 16bit samples, is makes absolutely no difference in sound.
It is kind of like playing 8bit 11kHz sounds on a modern 24bit 192kHz audio interface, the sounds are still 8bit 11kHz, makes sense?

BTW, when the YMF71x in WSS mode its Lowpass Filter behaves exactly like the SB16 brickwall filter, which is a nice thing to know and hear.
The newest Miles Drivers which support WSS for games that use it can be downloaded from HERE.
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby CkRtech » 2016-9-29 @ 11:32

I actually managed to pick up a YMF719E-S card (A151-A00) at a garage sale for $1 a few weeks ago. You guys have me trying it out now. Mine is...rather loud and noisy (hissy) with headphones. The amp seemed OK with rather low volumes in the mixer, but I when I rolled into the Duke 3D setup and tested FX, I felt like I was murdered in a bowling alley.

I don't typically listen directly through headphones and would naturally disable the amp in an official retro computing setup (rather than on a lab bench), so it is rather hard to test/judge. I did expect it to be much quieter.

These Luxon capacitors don't really thrill me at all. Do you guys have better caps in your cards?
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby carlostex » 2016-9-29 @ 15:25

The hardware mods are easy enough for me. For myself i won't do the trace reverse since i don't use the wavetable header at all. I like my MIDI gear external.

I'll do the filters caps and i might recap all the electrolytes with some Panasonic FC caps. FC's are generally used for audio applications.

The Atmel 93C66 is indeed a Serial EEPROM. These are usually highly reliable and support hundreds of thousands to million write cycles.
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby James-F » 2016-10-04 @ 17:17

I want to bump this thread for an excellent software for the SBPro called SBPVOL on Vogons Drivers: HERE.

Small 1K TSR which lets you control ALL SBPro Volumes, Filters and Stereo Switch with keyboard shortcut keys, including within games!
Very useful to switch the Lowpass Filter On/Off withing a game, even games that force the filter at start like Doom.
Or games like Jill who turn the Master vol to max (7), now you can turn it back down to 1 withing game.
I also find it very useful adjusting the FM volume within games to have better balance with VOICE in endless amount of games that don't have volume controls.

Now that there is an option to switch the Lowpas Filter anytime anywhere, there is no excuse to not do the mod if you have some soldering skills.
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2016-10-04 @ 23:09

James-F wrote:Very useful to switch the Lowpass Filter On/Off withing a game, even games that force the filter at start like Doom. Or games like Jill who turn the Master vol to max (7), now you can turn it back down to 1 withing game.
I also find it very useful adjusting the FM volume within games to have better balance with VOICE in endless amount of games that don't have volume controls.


That is very useful, thank you for sharing.
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby Stretch » 2016-10-26 @ 11:05

Does the SMD capacitor replacement mod apply the low pass filter to the FM music also or just the SB sound effects?
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby GuyTechie » 2016-10-26 @ 14:35

This deserves a sticky.
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby shiozaki » 2017-5-27 @ 02:44

these hardware mods are applicable to the Audician 32+ right? im planning on sending mine out for work and just wanted to double confirm.
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2017-5-27 @ 03:08

What are thoughts on running the card like it is, but use an equalizer to fine-tune the highs as one pleases?
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Re: Yamaha YMF71x SB Pro Mixer Bug Issue Fix

Postby James-F » 2017-5-27 @ 11:40

shiozaki wrote:these hardware mods are applicable to the Audician 32+ right?

Yes, the layout and component numbers are identical.
PhilsComputerLab wrote:What are thoughts on running the card like it is, but use an equalizer to fine-tune the highs as one pleases?

That also can work, but you will be equalizing everything that comes out of the card, including CD-audio.
The lowpass filter is there for a reason, to remove aliasing with low sampling rates; With higher sampling rates like 22kHz (Stereo) or 44kHz (mono), the SB manual states to disable the filter.
You obviously can do it manually with the 'tone' control on your speakers, but again, this will filter everything.
Moreover, older games actually had their sound mixed with the SB filters in mind, so a filterless card like the Audician 32 will sound too trebly with these games.
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