X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby dreamblaster » 2017-4-23 @ 20:05

okay, here's doom then :

https://soundcloud.com/dreamblaster/set ... -different
comparing :
Doom E1M1 on GUD 0.6 bank (with doomtastic2 preset)
Doom E1M1 on default Dream bank (with doomtastic2 preset)
Doom E1M1 on GUD 0.6 bank (with audit preset)

Which one do you like best ?

If we have new revision of the GUD bank, I will add it to the same playlist.

Will try to find time to do more recordings next weekend.

Feel free to download the GUD 0.6 bank and test any games you like.
feedback is welcome.
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-4-23 @ 20:11

Hi Serge,
Last week I promised you in email that I would test this new GM bank. Since I have found this dedicated topic I post my results here.
Generally this new GM soundfont is very good. I have only found 2 minor issues:
1. Program 79 Ocarina sounds a little off-tune.
2. Program 97 Soundtrack uses too much pitch slide effect that can be disturbing in songs that do not use Soundtrack as an effect but as an instrument.
Ps. None of these problems can be heard with the original GeneralUser GS soundfont.
I have made a video about these problems (unfortunately in the video I used Reality_GMGS_falcomod and not GeneralUser GS as a reference).

https://youtu.be/Kqfc7eQ3pZU
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby clueless1 » 2017-4-23 @ 20:26

@dreamblaster-thanks for posting these!

Of those three, my personal favorite is X2 : DOOM1 E1M1 : Audit preset : GUD 0.6, followed closely by Doom E1M1 on GUD 0.6 bank (with doomtastic2 preset). They are very close to each other, but I prefer Audit preset because it has a little more bass and warmth. Default Dream Bank is a distant 3rd. To my ear, the guitars sound least real with the default dream bank.
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby dreamblaster » 2017-4-23 @ 21:16

@Falcosoft : thanks, excellent, will try to get this fixed.
@clueless1: okay, thanks, I uploaded some more soom recordings to complete your comparison options :

Doom E1M1 on default Dream bank (with audit preset)
Doom E1M1 on default Dream bank (with audit2 preset)
Doom E1M1 on GUD 0.6 bank (with audit2 preset)

audit2 has a little more effect pass through than audit. (both can be downloaded from http://serdaco.com/downloads/X2/X2_Soun ... ck/GM/GUD/
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby Whiskey » 2017-4-23 @ 21:50

I'm having a little trouble with this beta soundbank. I've flashed my X2 before with no issue but the 0.6 sound bank beta seems to produce the same off instrument rendition of the Monkey Island opening that I was getting before with the default GMBK5X128 Soundbank.

Link to what I'm hearing. https://soundcloud.com/whiskeyjuliet/x2-gud-beta-06-the-secret-of-monkey-island-opening-and-scene-one

I've defiantly flashed the X2 correctly (more than once) and used the Audit Preset too. As you can hear it sounds nothing like the 0.5 recording @Dreamblaster provided. Any thoughts? Cheers W.

EDIT: Somthing to note, when using Zoltan Bacsko's Midi Player 4.6 and playing the Midi awmonkey.mid (attached) I get a accurate rendition of the theme. But the Extracted MT-32 Midi MI_1.MID (attached) gives the same incorrect instruments I get in game. I am launching the game currently from DOSBOX with the X2 setup as the MIDI device over usb. (But am also getting same results on DOS with an ISA ESS Audiodrive and the X2.) This makes me wonder if its a problem with MT32/Roland midi instrument numbers and the X2?
Attachments
MIMIDI.rar
GM/GS Midis
(29.81 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
Last edited by Whiskey on 2017-4-23 @ 22:23, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2017-4-23 @ 22:08

Whiskey wrote:I'm having a little trouble with this beta soundbank. I've flashed my X2 before with no issue but the 0.6 sound bank beta seems to produce the same off instrument rendition of the Monkey Island opening that I was getting before with the default GMBK5X128 Soundbank.

Link to what I'm hearing. https://soundcloud.com/whiskeyjuliet/x2-gud-beta-06-the-secret-of-monkey-island-opening-and-scene-one

I've defiantly flashed the X2 correctly (more than once) and used the Audit Preset too. As you can hear it sounds nothing like the 0.5 recording @Dreamblaster provided. Any thoughts? Cheers W.


Monkey Island doesn't support General MIDI, but the Roland MT-32. It's likely that the MIDI file used was a conversion, which can lead to confusion. I try to avoid using such MIDI files, and there are many of them, as it can make you believe the game will sound just like that on a real machine when it won't.

Unless there is a way to re-configure the X2 to use the default MT-32 instrument layout, it won't sound correct in that game.
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby dreamblaster » 2017-4-23 @ 22:16

PhilsComputerLab wrote:
Whiskey wrote:I'm having a little trouble with this beta soundbank. I've flashed my X2 before with no issue but the 0.6 sound bank beta seems to produce the same off instrument rendition of the Monkey Island opening that I was getting before with the default GMBK5X128 Soundbank.

Link to what I'm hearing. https://soundcloud.com/whiskeyjuliet/x2-gud-beta-06-the-secret-of-monkey-island-opening-and-scene-one

I've defiantly flashed the X2 correctly (more than once) and used the Audit Preset too. As you can hear it sounds nothing like the 0.5 recording @Dreamblaster provided. Any thoughts? Cheers W.


Monkey Island doesn't support General MIDI, but the Roland MT-32. It's likely that the MIDI file used was a conversion, which can lead to confusion.

Unless there is a way to re-configure the X2 to use the default MT-32 instrument layout, it won't sound correct in that game.


Yes that's right, as the soundcloud description says: https://soundcloud.com/dreamblaster/x2_ ... and1_gud05
this is GM midi file : migm1.mid (Monkey Island 1 theme GM version).

I had recorded this because someone requested, but indeed monkey island 1 is not a General MIDI game,
and theres no simple patch as far as i know, but maybe try the Monkey Island Ultimate Talkie Edition ? http://gratissaugen.de/ultimatetalkies/monkey1.html
This supports general midi :-) I didnt try yet, curious to hear your result !
Attachments
migm1.zip
migm1.mid zipped (Monkey Island 1 theme GM version)
(16.42 KiB) Downloaded 8 times
Last edited by dreamblaster on 2017-4-23 @ 22:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby Whiskey » 2017-4-23 @ 22:21

Thanks Phil for the quick reply. I was just editing my post and surmised as much. I wonder if a alternative bank with the Roland Instrument layout could be made as the new bank does sound very nice. Not sure on the complexity of this but I think it's just a case of reordering the patches and the banks to the Roland spec?

http://www.voidaudio.net/gsinstrument.html

I'm now starting to understand the difference between GS and GM. I never had a dedicated midi device when I was younger only a Sound Blaster 16.

EDIT: @Dreamblaster Ah ha, I didn't know there was a General Midi supporting version of MI1 I'll have to give it a try and report back. I feel like a right plum for not realising the difference between GS and GM.
Last edited by Whiskey on 2017-4-23 @ 22:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby dreamblaster » 2017-4-23 @ 22:24

Whiskey wrote:I'm now starting to understand the difference between GS and GM.


Okay also this :
the X2 dream bank is a GS bank.
The GUD 0.6 bank is a GM bank -- only GM instruments.
But that's not a big problem I guess, most games only use GM.
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2017-4-23 @ 22:31

Whiskey wrote:I wonder if a alternative bank with the Roland Instrument layout could be made as the new bank does sound very nice. Not sure on the complexity of this but I think it's just a case of reordering the patches and the banks to the Roland spec?


That is likely doable but there are some challenges:

- The default MT-32 instrument layout will work with a few games. Games basically that just stick with the default layout for the entire game. Most MT-32 games however "program" the MT-32 in a way that only the MT-32 can understand

- The other issue is that then everyone will think the X2 is fully MT-32 compatible and will have a negative experience when they find out it's not
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-4-23 @ 23:12

Thanks Phil for the quick reply. I was just editing my post and surmised as much. I wonder if a alternative bank with the Roland Instrument layout could be made as the new bank does sound very nice. Not sure on the complexity of this but I think it's just a case of reordering the patches and the banks to the Roland spec?

http://www.voidaudio.net/gsinstrument.html

I'm now starting to understand the difference between GS and GM. I never had a dedicated midi device when I was younger only a Sound Blaster 16.


I have a feeling based on the above that you think MT-32 is a GS device and this is the problem here. No, GS is another Roland midi system based on GM. But MT-32 is neither of them. MT-32 precedes both GS and GM.
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby Whiskey » 2017-4-23 @ 23:34

@Falcosoft My error is rather clear now. I'd assumed each was built on its successor mt32 > gs > gm . But it's obvious now that I couldn't have been more wrong. Thanks for the info and the great Midi player.
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby dreamblaster » 2017-4-25 @ 19:39

New recordings : X2 playing tie fighter intro with GUD 0.6 bank and Dream Bank (using audit2 preset)
https://soundcloud.com/dreamblaster/set ... -different

And here are the X2 DOOM E1M1 recordings, different presets all added to one playlist :
https://soundcloud.com/dreamblaster/set ... -different
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby Whiskey » 2017-4-27 @ 18:11

Here is as suggested a recording of the General Midi version of The Secret of Monkey Island opening from the Ultimate Talkie Edition.
It sounds pretty good, really nice volume balance and instruments. Thanks for all the comments before about where I was going wrong.

https://soundcloud.com/whiskeyjuliet/dr ... ie-edition

EDIT: Additional! Sam and Max Hit the Road

https://soundcloud.com/whiskeyjuliet/sa ... t-sequence
Last edited by Whiskey on 2017-4-27 @ 18:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby keropi » 2017-4-27 @ 18:34

very nice
with more feedback and error-pointing the bank will become really great :D
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby Doppler » 2017-4-28 @ 10:02

Could someone share renders of Warcraft 2 soundtrack? :P Would do it myself but dont have the time ;(
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-4-28 @ 16:37

Doppler wrote:Could someone share renders of Warcraft 2 soundtrack? :P Would do it myself but dont have the time ;(

Here you are, 4 songs of Warcraft 2:
https://youtu.be/US6E1hdKW10

Intro: 0:00
Menu: 2:52
Human1: 3:33
Orc1: 6:03

Ps: The piccolo at the end of Orc1gm (channel 9) sounds a tiny little bit off-tune.
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby James-F » 2017-4-28 @ 17:58

I don't hear the Crash Cymbal on Doom E1M1 that should start at around 00:10 with the GUD bank, but I do hear it in FSMP with the GeneralUser SF2 or SC-55.
Can someone confirm?
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby Whiskey » 2017-4-28 @ 20:02

James-F wrote:I don't hear the Crash Cymbal on Doom E1M1 that should start at around 00:10 with the GUD bank, but I do hear it in FSMP with the GeneralUser SF2 or SC-55.
Can someone confirm?

Agreed. It is there on all of the Dream Bank recordings, but none of the GUD 0.6 recordings. Regardless of the level presets used.
https://soundcloud.com/dreamblaster/set ... -different

Cymbals start on the snare beat at 9 seconds in.
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Re: X2GU : New GM bank for DreamBlaster X2

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-4-29 @ 00:56

James-F wrote:I don't hear the Crash Cymbal on Doom E1M1 that should start at around 00:10 with the GUD bank, but I do hear it in FSMP with the GeneralUser SF2 or SC-55.
Can someone confirm?


I can also confirm it.

@Serge:
I have already written an email to you about a problem with the DB X2 Piano soundfont. The problem is very similar to this case.
"I would like to report a problem relating the beta Piano soundfont. It seems that the velocity to volume curve is not right. At velocity level 50 - 60 the piano's sound is almost inaudible. The volume of the notes should be this low at velocity level 0 - 10 not at 50 - 60. I have attached a test file where some notes are inaudible because of this.
If you use the latest Midi Player (4.6) there is a new midi event debugger (Ctrl + D) that can be used to test this bug. If you modify the notes velocity value that are 50 - 60 to e.g. 80, the notes that are inaudible so far suddenly appears."


In Doom E1M1's case the Crash Cymbal (A4(57) on track 4/channel 10) uses velocity values as low as 23. These notes are completely inaudible. The other A4(57) notes use velocity values between 56-64. These are also very quiet.
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