I see plenty of listings for CT4520 for under $30 (shipping not included).

Having had both a CT4500 and a CT4520, I found no functional differences. The CT4520 is smaller and has colored jacks, which may be a small plus.

Yeah I do see some CT4520 for around $30-$40 and others for around $100.

I'm trying to cover it all with the less money spent. I'm ok with running the old DOS titles in DOSBox to get the best matching sound but I would like a good DOS/Win98 setup.

Has anyone used the Vortex2 with Dreamblaster in DOS and been quite happy with it? (I think one issue could be the need for the driver for SBPro/16 to work in DOS.)
Would I be better off getting the AWE64 CT4250 instead of adding a Dreamblaster S1/S2.

If you want an AWE64 I'd recommend the earlier CT4380 model or the Gold CT4390.

Be careful if you decide to get a CT4520.
Some CT4520 are actually a crippled SB16.
I've never seen a AWE64 CT4520 that's neutered
AWE64 value music
AWE64 Value being recognized as SB16

How comparable would an Audician 32 plus with Dreamblaster be to an AWE64 regarding gaming?

I have a Dreamblaster S1 (on an Audician 32 Plus in a rig that I'll post about just as soon as I swat that last bug, grr), and I think it sounds fantastic, but it does sound a bit different from the AWE64 wavetable synth. Closest comparison I think would be to an SC-55, but it doesn't sound exactly the same, just pretty close. It's also General MIDI, as mentioned, not SB AWE, so some games may support one but not the other (though both have OPL3 or equivalent FM synth for games that don't play nice, and both have the option for external MIDI devices). Both are ISA PNP devices, which might play hell with some older hardware, but you shouldn't have serious issues.

For non-MIDI applications, I'm pretty sure the Yamaha card is an SB Pro equivalent, so, not 16-bit, while the AWE64 is 16-bit. For DOS games that may not matter but if you want to play back CD audio or MP3/Ogg at full fidelity, the 16-bit playback would be nice. That's probably not a likely use case on 486-class hardware, but for Pentiums (or PPro/II/III, K6, Athlon, etc) I could see it.

Personally, I'd go with the Yamaha card and the Dreamblaster X2, but if you can find an AWE64 for less, that's pretty much as good in the general case.

EDIT: removed derp first line.

Another AWE64 alternative is the CT3670.
it uses the same main chipset as the AWE64 and also had the same DSP version.
Only downside is that it doesn't have any onboard RAM, but it does have two 30-pin simm slots.
Once you put some RAM on this card, then you basically have the same functionality as an AWE64 value.

I think I'll get an AWE64. I'd be spending the same to get the Audician and DreamBlaster. I might get a DreamBlaster for another build that will have an nvidia 6800, Athlon XP 2600+ and a TB Vortex2 sound card which has the wavetable connector. Yeah, it based off of Phil's Computer Lab's video on building a Voodoo/glide PC on the cheap. I'm not sure how DOS games work but maybe DOSBox runs on Windows 98? If not, I'll try if KernelEx will get it working. I also have an Extigy that I have never used. I might see how that goes.

I don't understand why I got into this! I have a PC that can handle practically everything DOS and glide emulation. (i7 6700k, 32GB RAM, RX 480, ultrawide monitor) Most of the same games I want to play on these old machines I'm building work fine on my main PC which most I have on Steam with some running in ultrawide (Quake is awesome in ultrawide). GZDOOM works in 1920x1080 (not ultrawide yet) and I play with all graphic enhancements off. I wanted to get a second RX480 and here I am I'm browsing AWE64 Golds and 3Dfx cards.

I got games I want to get through like the Witcher Series, ROTR, the new DOOM, etc.. I'm going back to my roots...way back.

As I think about it, is there a way to get Tandy 3-voice without an actual Tandy or DOSBox? My first "gaming" PC was a Tandy 1000 RLX; 286 w/ Tandy 3-voice, a Sound Blaster 8-bit and 1MB of RAM.

GiSWiG wrote:

I think I'll get an AWE64. I'd be spending the same to get the Audician and DreamBlaster.

You can get an AWE64 (value) for far less than a Audician + Dreamblaster, although it won't be new.

jesolo wrote:

Another AWE64 alternative is the CT3670. it uses the same main chipset as the AWE64 and also had the same DSP version. Only down […]
Show full quote

Another AWE64 alternative is the CT3670.
it uses the same main chipset as the AWE64 and also had the same DSP version.
Only downside is that it doesn't have any onboard RAM, but it does have two 30-pin simm slots.
Once you put some RAM on this card, then you basically have the same functionality as an AWE64 value.

You actually get more than an AWE64 Value because the Value only has 512KB of RAM unless you add more RAM via the special Creative RAM cards or are able to get a SIMMCONN.

You can top out the CT3670 with 2x 16MB chips of which it will see 28MB.

After much research I ordered one today and will be doing a comparison between my CT4390 AWE64 Gold and it. I'm really guessing that the functionality will be exactly the same except for the fact that the CT3670 will have 28MB and the Gold only has the standard 4MB.

You even use the AWE64 drivers for DOS at least for the CT3670. I'm guessing it will be the same for Windows and it really should have been called a SB64 instead of a SB32.

Just ordered the CT4520, $25. I'll put that in my P3 machine. I'll eventually add a Dreamblaster to my Vortex2 card and see how that sound.

GiSWiG wrote:

How comparable would an Audician 32 plus with Dreamblaster be to an AWE64 regarding gaming?

The Audician 32 + Dreamblaster combination is FAR superior against an AWE64. It's even better against the AWE64 Gold IMO...

carlostex wrote:

GiSWiG wrote:

How comparable would an Audician 32 plus with Dreamblaster be to an AWE64 regarding gaming?

The Audician 32 + Dreamblaster combination is FAR superior against an AWE64. It's even better against the AWE64 Gold IMO...

It's on the list but the new Dreamblasters aren't available yet.

Looks like the AWE64 Value was a bust. Does work great when AWE32 or SB16/SBPro are available as choices in some games but I found out the hard way that they don't work well (or at all) in General MIDI for games like Doom 1. Doom 2 has AWE as a choice so it works good there. Seems to work nicely playing in Windows.

So I guess the Audician w/ Dreamblaster is the way to go. I'll have to wait though.

In the meantime, I'm trying to get a few other cards a go. So far I have
SB16 PCI CT4740
SB 128 PCI (doesn't seem to be recognized as such)
SB Live Value CT4830
SB Live SB0200
SB Live 5.1 Digital SB0220
AudioPCI, came from an old P2 HP, sticker says AudioPCI, Ensonic is printed on the PCB and Creative 1371 is printed on the chip. There's also a heatsink attached to a chip that is folder over?
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz
TB Vortex and Vortex2, two each. They're all on a cut slanted PCB, say Turtle Beach on them, chip 8820 for Vortex, chip 8830 on one Vortext2, 8830A2 on the other.

Everything appears to have come from Dell or other business machines.

I think I'll try the Vortex2s w/ Dreamblaster (once I get one) in a new build I'm planning (ASUS K8V SE Deluxe, Athlon64 3000+) and try the Audician w/ Dreamblaster in the old P3 board (ASUS P3V4x).

Look like I'll need to wait for the Dreamblaster S2 for a bit.

I really just want to be able to play as many old DOS games with great MIDI without breaking the bank but not in DOSBox, unless it is the only way. So no ext. Roland, Yamaha MIDIs, etc..

GiSWiG wrote:

Looks like the AWE64 Value was a bust. Does work great when AWE32 or SB16/SBPro are available as choices in some games but I found out the hard way that they don't work well (or at all) in General MIDI for games like Doom 1. Doom 2 has AWE as a choice so it works good there. Seems to work nicely playing in Windows.

This was always going to be like that. Perhaps someone should have made it clearer.

AWE cards are not general MIDI devices. They provide a sort of an emulation, but that rarely works well in DOS, because the driver they provided to do that sucks. It works great in DOS for games that were specifically coded with AWE support. It works well enough for games in FM mode (SB/SBPRO/SB16), in the sense that it's 100% compatible, but not 100% authentic sounding (due to the FM synthesizer being CQM and not OPL3; with the exception of some rare AWE32 variants that did have OPL3).

In Windows 9x, though, the MIDI emulation drivers are far better, and most DOS games will work fine on an AWE card as 'General MIDI devices', assuming said DOS games have no other compatibility issues with being run under Windows.

GiSWiG wrote:

So I guess the Audician w/ Dreamblaster is the way to go. I'll have to wait though.

It might be the way to go, but there are a few caveats as well. I tried such a setup myself versus my AWE64. You can read about some of the problems I encountered and possible solutions here. The bottom line is that the Audician+Dreamblaster combo does offer a higher potential for richer, better sound in a wider selection of DOS games, but it is definitely trickier to set up.

I think I'll try with what I got. After trying to get DOS working with so many AudioPCI family cards, I really hosed my system so I'll start fresh and see how the SB Live and SBPCI128 go (ES1370) and they try an AWE64. That will be with a P3 machine.

I'm building an Athlon 64 for a high-end hybrid. DOS, Win98, glide wrappers and DOSBox DAUM SVN if it works under Win98. I'll try the Vortex2 and a Dreamblaster funded by the sale of a Geforce 7800GS BFG.

You mentioned earlier not having much luck with Doom 1 on an AWE64.
If your Doom 1 setup menu doesn't list the "AWE32" as an option, then you have a very old version of Doom 1 - you need to update to a later version (version 1.4 or later) that did provide direct support in hardware for an AWE32 (and by extension an AWE64).

Apart from the NMI problem, most "real mode" General MIDI compatible games runs fine with an AWE based card, provided you load Aweutil with the /EM:GM parameter.
You will have to play around with your memory management, but I've been able to successfully make at least 600k available after loading Aweutil, mouse & CD-ROM device drivers. The order in which you load your device drivers is also important.

Protected mode games (like Doom, which uses a DOS extender) must be supported directly in hardware (in such a case, you can just load Aweutil with the /S parameter, which doesn't take up any memory).
Another alternative would be run your protected mode games within Windows via a (DOS) command prompt, but you would then select General MIDI as your music device in the setup menu and not AWE32. I've had much success with this approach with games like Doom & Duke Nukem 3D. The benefit is that you can then also load other soundfonts under Windows, which will then make your music playback sound much better (as opposed to being stuck with the standard 1 MB ROM sample set under DOS).

I've read about the NMI and I'm not sure if that is a factor. I did read that it could also effect getting SBLive in DOS running but I didn't seem to have an issue, although I hope it was the right PC. I've been playing around with two slot 1 PCs, mixing and matching, gets confusing sometimes. I need to take notes.

I wonder if the VIA Apollo chipset could be an issue with the NMI. It's the chipset on the ASUS P3V4X I'm trying to get this working on. I haven't found much saying what doesn't support NMI, just that the 440BX does support it and you should get one of those.