VOGONS


First post, by LouisSkolnick

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Hi, I'm trying to build a modern machine with a working soundcard and freeDOS - without using DOSBox or Win9x.

Apparently there are no modern sound cards that come with DOS drivers.
Is there really nothing at all out there? What about these small external USB soundcards?

Reply 1 of 19, by gdjacobs

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Unfortunately not. The good thing is that there are serviceable cards on the market which are quite cheap. Look for cards using the YMF-71x chipset or ESS 186x and 1688 chipsets.

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Reply 2 of 19, by jade_angel

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The reason why is that "DOS sound card drivers" mostly don't exist (*). There are configuration utilities for plug and play cards, but those aren't exactly drivers. DOS doesn't have a sound API, unlike Windows, OS/2, Mac OS, Linux, etc, so DOS apps have to talk directly to the sound card - looked at another way, each app/game comes with its own suite of sound card drivers. That was pretty limiting, hence why Soundblaster compatibility was such a big deal - if an app could talk to a Soundblaster, it could talk to that Soundblaster-compatible card. Trouble with that, is that ISA Soundblasters (and Soundblaster Pro or SB 16) used hardware resources that were essentially specific to the ISA bus, so MCA, PCI, USB and PCI Express sound cards can't really be "SB compatible" in the same way ISA ones could be. They use different hardware resources (and USB, for example, can't be talked to in the same way as ISA at all - "base IO addresses", "IRQ lines" and "DMA channels" are meaningless for a USB device).

(*) - Some cards, especially PCI ones based on the Ensoniq ES137x or the Aureal 8820, did include programs that were essentially "SB16 emulators", that would intercept calls to an SB16's hardware resources, translate them and pass them on to the card. These could be considered "drivers" of a sort, but they're kind of a kluge, and weren't made for a lot of cards. Win9x, DOSBox, OS/2's DOS VM, WinNT's NTVDM, Virtualbox, VMWare and similar also use a trick like this to pass DOS audio on to whatever sound hardware the machine actually has, too - they pretend to make something available to the DOS app (usually an SB Pro, SB16 or SB AWE32, plus an OPL2/3/4 or General MIDI synth), then translate that into OS-level sound API calls, which the sound drivers then turn into whatever the actual sound hardware is expecting.

It might be possible to have some kind of SB-emulating driver for newer cards, but I'm not aware of any. Best bet, if your modern machine still has any PCI slots, would be to try to find a card based on the ES137x or Aureal 8820. Failing that, there is a PCIe version of the Audigy2, but I have no idea if it can be bludgeoned into providing SB16 emulation or not.

Main Box: Macbook Pro M2 Max
Alas, I'm down to emulation.

Reply 3 of 19, by Jorpho

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While there are PCI sound cards with DOS drivers, these drivers generally relied on motherboard features which disappeared around the time of the Pentium 4 (specifically after the ICH7 southbridge disappeared). So, even if you found such a card, it would pretty much never work in DOS in a "modern machine". One exception might be mpxplay, but that is pretty much only useful as a media player and not for DOS applications.

You probably wouldn't want to use freeDOS on a "modern machine" anyway, as current computers are so much faster than they were twenty years ago that compatibility problems with older DOS games would be very likely.

Reply 6 of 19, by PhilsComputerLab

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dr.zeissler wrote:

LPT-Dac also 😀

Good point! Motherboard with printer port should still be around?

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Reply 7 of 19, by jade_angel

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Much to my surprise, my current Win10 gaming box - Skylake i3 - has headers on board for both parallel and serial. Most modern boards don't have parallel anymore, but a few still do. Also, there are PCIe parallel port cards, but I'm not sure if they use the standard hardware resources or not.

Main Box: Macbook Pro M2 Max
Alas, I'm down to emulation.

Reply 9 of 19, by Kamerat

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I used an old soundcard on a "new" system in DOS 7.1, a Yamaha YMF744 on the Intel X58 platform. The PCI YMF series has a TSR called DSDMA that emulates the ISA DMA needed for most DOS games. Unfortunatly I don't know if it works on systems that don't have native PCI (but bridged from PCIe instead).

YMF744+DSDMA+DOS+P965(and other PCIe chipsets)=success

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 10 of 19, by Jo22

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jade_angel wrote:

Also, there are PCIe parallel port cards, but I'm not sure if they use the standard hardware resources or not.

Hi, I've seen them, too. Seems they do assign IRQ and port addresses on their own (or let the PnP BIOS do for them).
No idea if there are any DOS utilities available for them, but I've seen no jumpers on them so far.
If they can't be configured manually or don't default to 378h (or 3BC in rare cases), then DOS software can't use them out of the box.

dr.zeissler wrote:

There are some really cool demos/intros for PC-Speaker 😀 YEAH!

YEAH-RR-RRRR!!! *beep* 😁

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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 12 of 19, by Jo22

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Thanks! 😀

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 14 of 19, by cyclone3d

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YMF744 based card for cheap.... I have some on the way. Looks like there is only 1 left right now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182193467237?_trksid= … K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The really good thing about the Yamaha cards is that they have real OPL3 integrated.

Really, any of the YMF7x4 PCI cards should work on a newer system in DOS.. or at least that is from what I have been able to find. This may not be correct though. The readme says that the motherboard must support PC-PCI (sb link) or DDMA.

Drivers available on vogonsdrivers.com
http://vogonsdrivers.com/index.php?catid=39&menustate=51,35

EDIT: I received the first card and they sent me a CMI 8738 card.. not what is pictured in the listing.

Last edited by cyclone3d on 2017-03-23, 17:43. Edited 1 time in total.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 17 of 19, by PhilsComputerLab

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cyclone3d wrote:

EDIT: I received the first card and they sent me a CMI 8738 card.. not what is pictured in the listing.

Isn't that also a good card for DOS?

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Reply 18 of 19, by cyclone3d

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PhilsComputerLab wrote:
cyclone3d wrote:

EDIT: I received the first card and they sent me a CMI 8738 card.. not what is pictured in the listing.

Isn't that also a good card for DOS?

From what I could find here, it may be ok for DOS.. IF you can get it working.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 19 of 19, by assa92004

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cyclone3d wrote:
PhilsComputerLab wrote:
cyclone3d wrote:

EDIT: I received the first card and they sent me a CMI 8738 card.. not what is pictured in the listing.

Isn't that also a good card for DOS?

From what I could find here, it may be ok for DOS.. IF you can get it working.

I have one and my experience is that it is. if you can force it from irq 10 to irq 5 or 7. the hit rate on games goes up
(use the bios to exclude irq 10 and force it to go 5 or 7). so far i have tried 6 games. only one hasnt worked
dark forces worked
doom worked
prince of persia worked
perfect general worked
indiana jones atlantis worked
armourgedon worked

just to give you some idea. Also I am using freedos fdos .. (first post new user hope this was the correct way to post)