VOGONS


First post, by tanasen

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Hi, I want to play some dos glide games (e.g. Blood, GTA, Screamer2) on my retro pc (Pentium3 800, windows 98/ME) and I came to the conclusion that I need a PCI sound card. My motherbord is MSI MS-6178 and has 3 pci bus slots.
Which one has the best compatibility for dos glide games?
SOUNDBLASTER CT4170
SOUNDBLASTER CT4810
SOUNDBLASTER CT4180
ΥΑΜΑΗΑ WF-192XG

Or any other suggestions. Thanks.

PC1😜 III-S 1.4GHz, GA-6VTXE, 512MB SDRAM, Albatron FX5900XTV 128MB, SB Live! 5.1
PC2😜 III 800MHz, MS-6178, 256MB SDRAM, 3DFX Voodoo3 2000 PCI, Creative CT4810
PC3😜 MMX 200MHz, SY-5EAS5, 128MB SDRAM, Diamond Monster 3D, Diamond Viper V330, ESS 1868F

Reply 1 of 17, by cyclone3d

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Out of those, I would personally go with a Yamaha card. It doesn't have to be the WF-192XG. Any YMF 724, 744, or 754 card would fit the bill. That way you would get real OPL3.

I also wouldn't necessarily limit myself to only 1 sound card.

The CT4170 and CT4180 are ISA cards.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 2 of 17, by tanasen

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Thanks for your input. I see. What about the SoundBlaster Live! ? I've seen during the sound configuration of some games that it is compatible with lots of dos games.

PC1😜 III-S 1.4GHz, GA-6VTXE, 512MB SDRAM, Albatron FX5900XTV 128MB, SB Live! 5.1
PC2😜 III 800MHz, MS-6178, 256MB SDRAM, 3DFX Voodoo3 2000 PCI, Creative CT4810
PC3😜 MMX 200MHz, SY-5EAS5, 128MB SDRAM, Diamond Monster 3D, Diamond Viper V330, ESS 1868F

Reply 3 of 17, by Kamerat

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I guess the CT4810 "ES1973" has about the same compatibility for DOS games as a Live!. Select General MIDI for music in your games if you use one of theese.

Remember to patch Duke Nukem 3D if you're gonna play it on your rig with the Live! or a Sound Blaster PCI: advsys.net/ken/build.htm

For the ΥΑΜΑΗΑ WF-192XG make sure to download a driver with the DSDMA TSR included, looks like your motherboard lacks a PC/PCI connector and the chipset doesn't do DDMA.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
YouTube channel

Reply 4 of 17, by tanasen

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Thank you very much!

PC1😜 III-S 1.4GHz, GA-6VTXE, 512MB SDRAM, Albatron FX5900XTV 128MB, SB Live! 5.1
PC2😜 III 800MHz, MS-6178, 256MB SDRAM, 3DFX Voodoo3 2000 PCI, Creative CT4810
PC3😜 MMX 200MHz, SY-5EAS5, 128MB SDRAM, Diamond Monster 3D, Diamond Viper V330, ESS 1868F

Reply 5 of 17, by Kamerat

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After a closer look in the manual it looks like some of the motherboards came with an Aureal Vortex 8810 chip onboard, look if your board got one, should be MS-DOS compatible.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
YouTube channel

Reply 6 of 17, by tanasen

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Mine is with the 82801AA controller.

PC1😜 III-S 1.4GHz, GA-6VTXE, 512MB SDRAM, Albatron FX5900XTV 128MB, SB Live! 5.1
PC2😜 III 800MHz, MS-6178, 256MB SDRAM, 3DFX Voodoo3 2000 PCI, Creative CT4810
PC3😜 MMX 200MHz, SY-5EAS5, 128MB SDRAM, Diamond Monster 3D, Diamond Viper V330, ESS 1868F

Reply 7 of 17, by Jorpho

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Kamerat wrote:

For the ΥΑΜΑΗΑ WF-192XG make sure to download a driver with the DSDMA TSR included, looks like your motherboard lacks a PC/PCI connector and the chipset doesn't do DDMA.

I thought all Pentium III chipsets had that capability. Otherwise, wouldn't it be completely impossible to use an SB Live?

Reply 8 of 17, by Kamerat

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tanasen wrote:

Mine is with the 82801AA controller.

If you look at the upper left corner of this picture you can see the AU8810 chip and it's clock crystal, I guess your solder pads are empty.

Jorpho wrote:

I thought all Pentium III chipsets had that capability. Otherwise, wouldn't it be completely impossible to use an SB Live?

Live! uses a TSR to emulate the ISA DMA functions. Only 440BX/ZX of Intel's Pentium III chipsets supported DDMA.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
YouTube channel

Reply 9 of 17, by Jorpho

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Kamerat wrote:

Live! uses a TSR to emulate the ISA DMA functions. Only 440BX/ZX of Intel's Pentium III chipsets supported DDMA.

But you would need the same TSR even if you were using one of those chipsets. And there are plenty of chipsets for which that TSR won't work at all.

Reply 10 of 17, by tanasen

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Yep, it's empty.

PC1😜 III-S 1.4GHz, GA-6VTXE, 512MB SDRAM, Albatron FX5900XTV 128MB, SB Live! 5.1
PC2😜 III 800MHz, MS-6178, 256MB SDRAM, 3DFX Voodoo3 2000 PCI, Creative CT4810
PC3😜 MMX 200MHz, SY-5EAS5, 128MB SDRAM, Diamond Monster 3D, Diamond Viper V330, ESS 1868F

Reply 11 of 17, by Kamerat

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Jorpho wrote:

But you would need the same TSR even if you were using one of those chipsets. And there are plenty of chipsets for which that TSR won't work at all.

Yes, none of Creative's card's ever used DDMA. The TSR of the Live! still need some spesific functions of the chipset enabled which seems to have gone on Intel's PCIe based chipsets and all nVidia and AMD chipsets. The only PCIe chipset I got that kind of emulation working were the SiS 671DX/968 with the ES1370/CT5507.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
YouTube channel

Reply 12 of 17, by Jorpho

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Kamerat wrote:

Yes, none of Creative's card's ever used DDMA. The TSR of the Live! still need some spesific functions of the chipset enabled which seems to have gone on Intel's PCIe based chipsets and all nVidia and AMD chipsets.

I thought those "specific functions" were the same as DDMA. I guess not.

Reply 13 of 17, by Kamerat

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Jorpho wrote:

I thought those "specific functions" were the same as DDMA. I guess not.

Maybe this thread gives you some answers.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
YouTube channel

Reply 14 of 17, by tanasen

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Hello again. I purchased the CT4810 and the Sounblaster Live! 5.1. The first one worked but the drivers screwed up my system (no volume control, computer couldn't shut down) so I re-installed windows 98, but the second one is not recognised by any driver I try (probably 7 different drivers so far); so I assume the Live! is Dead!
Could you please tell me which drivers should I install for the sounblaster ct4810 for windows 98 first edition?

PC1😜 III-S 1.4GHz, GA-6VTXE, 512MB SDRAM, Albatron FX5900XTV 128MB, SB Live! 5.1
PC2😜 III 800MHz, MS-6178, 256MB SDRAM, 3DFX Voodoo3 2000 PCI, Creative CT4810
PC3😜 MMX 200MHz, SY-5EAS5, 128MB SDRAM, Diamond Monster 3D, Diamond Viper V330, ESS 1868F

Reply 15 of 17, by Jorpho

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Is there some reason you are not using Windows 98 SE? One of the major differences is that SE supports WDM drivers, which may make a big difference.

If you want to test your other card, my usual recommendation is to try booting a version of Linux off a CD or USB stick. Many versions should already include appropriate drivers and if your card works with Linux, then you can be sure it's probably a Windows problem.

Reply 16 of 17, by tanasen

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Problem solved after reinstalling the same drivers. No problem right now with CT4810, played Carmageddon 3dfx with sound. If problems reappear I'll try Win98SE. As for the Live! I'll try to test it on another system with Linux. Thanks!

PC1😜 III-S 1.4GHz, GA-6VTXE, 512MB SDRAM, Albatron FX5900XTV 128MB, SB Live! 5.1
PC2😜 III 800MHz, MS-6178, 256MB SDRAM, 3DFX Voodoo3 2000 PCI, Creative CT4810
PC3😜 MMX 200MHz, SY-5EAS5, 128MB SDRAM, Diamond Monster 3D, Diamond Viper V330, ESS 1868F

Reply 17 of 17, by tanasen

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Forgot to update. The SB live! worked in linux and now is paired with my voodoo 3 2000 in winXP. Works great! Managed to test successfully over 30 games in winXP. On the other hand the CT4810 also worked like a charm in win98 playing over 25 dos and windows glide games along with my voodoo-s3 virge dx combo. Now I need to find some time to actually play!

PC1😜 III-S 1.4GHz, GA-6VTXE, 512MB SDRAM, Albatron FX5900XTV 128MB, SB Live! 5.1
PC2😜 III 800MHz, MS-6178, 256MB SDRAM, 3DFX Voodoo3 2000 PCI, Creative CT4810
PC3😜 MMX 200MHz, SY-5EAS5, 128MB SDRAM, Diamond Monster 3D, Diamond Viper V330, ESS 1868F