SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby Android8675 » 2017-4-18 @ 18:25

Recently found out that a P3 is (shocker) too fast for these old ISA cards, so now I'm setting out to build a system around these two audio cards.

I got the SBPro to work just enough that I think it's not completely dead, and the LAPC-I, who knows, but I'm hoping it's still good.

Can anyone recommend a system I should go with?

All I have are AGP cards for video (Geforce2GTS being the slowest), so keep that in mind.
I have a ton of IDE drives, a couple CF-IDE interfaces that I got to work, and a PCI -> SCSI CD-ROM

I was thinking Socket 7 or SS7 for the AGP slot.

As for what I want to play on it, I really don't care, I love anything I can get to run, but think Doom, point & clicks, Wing Commander maybe?

DOS 7.1 I got running and I like it because FAT32 is available as are long filenames, but OS isn't a thought at this time.

Thanks in advance,
-A.
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2017-4-18 @ 20:18

Socket 7 would work great as you can slow it down to 386 / 486 speeds by playing with the cache settings.

A proper 486, and also 386 (but this one will limit your options) are also worth checking out.

But Socket 7 is by fat the most flexible approach :)
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby keropi » 2017-4-18 @ 20:21

also keep in mind that the LAPC-I requires a PSU with -5v rail to work fully, without -5v you won't hear sound from it
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby PhilsComputerLab » 2017-4-18 @ 20:28

+1 Ah yes, forgot to mention that :)
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby Jo22 » 2017-4-18 @ 20:50

Android8675 wrote:I got the SBPro to work just enough that I think it's not completely dead, and the LAPC-I, who knows, but I'm hoping it's still good.

As far as I know, the OPL2 on the SB/SBPro1 is speed sensitive (or can't catch up with the rapid fire of commands it gets from fast machines, so to say).

Android8675 wrote:Can anyone recommend a system I should go with?

Not me, but I'm sure others have a lot of eperience with that hardware generation. :)
I pretty much skipped (well, I think so) the late Win9x 3D era and Geforce2 was more of a XP or Power Mac thing for me. :sweatdrop:
That beeing said, there's nothing wrong with a Geforce2. We had something like that in the heyday of Win 98SE..
I'm just not sure how good its VGA core still is (and how well VBE 3.0 is for games). Around that time,
I still played a few DOS games on a 286, respectively a 586 machine. If you're pimarily interested in 2D stuff,
you may consider some PCI cards also. Popular were the S3 cards or those from Tseng (ET4000, ET6000, etc.).
Matrox also made good cards (G200/400) I heard, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrox_G200

Android8675 wrote:I was thinking Socket 7 or SS7 for the AGP slot.

That's fine, but becareful with AGP 1x slots. They used to run on a higher voltage, even though some slots were mechanical
compatible with never revisions. AGP 2x cards can usually work in either slot (speaking under corretion, better check that).
The Trio3D is an AGP 1x card, btw (or more precisely, a hotrod PCI card with 66MHz and an AGP connector).

Android8675 wrote:Thanks in advance,
-A.
You're welcome! :D
"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby yawetaG » 2017-4-18 @ 20:59

Jo22 wrote:
Android8675 wrote:I was thinking Socket 7 or SS7 for the AGP slot.

That's fine, but becareful with AGP 1x slots. They used to run on a higher voltage, even though some slots were mechanical
compatible with never revisions. AGP 2x cards can usually work in either slot (speaking under corretion, better check that).
The Trio3D is an AGP 1x card, btw (or more precisely, a hotrod PCI card with 66MHz and an AGP connector).


AFAIK, AGP cards suitable for both voltages are keyed to fit into both models of AGP slot, while those cards suitable only for the higher voltage slots won't fit into the lower voltage slots and the other way around.

The card will work at the speed of the slot. So a 2x card in a 1x slot will work at 1x.
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby Android8675 » 2017-4-18 @ 21:26

keropi wrote:also keep in mind that the LAPC-I requires a PSU with -5v rail to work fully, without -5v you won't hear sound from it


Some of the boards I'm looking at have ATX power connectors and the PSU I have is a new EVGA PSU (Or Corsair maybe) 500W, Bronze rated, probably overkill now, but any reason this wouldn't have -5v rail?

Thanks for the responses all.
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby Android8675 » 2017-4-18 @ 21:29

Jo22 wrote:
Android8675 wrote:I got the SBPro to work just enough that I think it's not completely dead, and the LAPC-I, who knows, but I'm hoping it's still good.

As far as I know, the OPL2 on the SB/SBPro1 is speed sensitive (or can't catch up with the rapid fire of commands it gets from fast machines, so to say).


That makes sense, the SBPro failed to load the FM driver in DOS. Digital audio was hit or miss. Hopefully it's that simple.

Jo22 wrote:
Android8675 wrote:Thanks in advance,
-A.
You're welcome! :D


No, thank you!
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby keropi » 2017-4-18 @ 21:29

^ -5v rail was standard on AT PSUs but optional in ATX ones. Early ATX ones had it but a recent 500W with a -5v rail is almost impossible to come across. Take a look at the ATX plug the PSU has, see if you have a WHITE wire or it's missing completely. Chances are there is an empty pin on your ATX plug...
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby awgamer » 2017-4-18 @ 23:29

Android8675 wrote:All I have are AGP cards for video (Geforce2GTS being the slowest), so keep that in mind.


You're in luck, your geforce2gts is up there in DOS compatibility: https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/ If the GTS doesn't pan out for whatever reason, I'd suggest a virge/DX, not only one of the top most compatible but ubiquitous and cheap.
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby schlang » 2017-4-19 @ 03:50

riva128 <3
PC#1: K6-III+ 400 | 512MB | Geforce4 | Voodoo1 | SB Live | AWE64 | GUS PNP Pro
PC#2: 486DX2-66 | 64MB | Riva128 | AWE64 | GUS PNP | PAS16
PC#3: 386DX-40 | 32MB | CL-GD5434 | SB Pro | GUS MAX | PAS16

Think you know your games music? Show us: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37532
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby James-F » 2017-4-19 @ 04:10

As others said, the SBPro CT1330 is very sensitive to clock speed just like SB1.x and SB2.0 or other OPL2 (YM3812) cards.
A Socket 7 will not do even with both caches disabled because the clock itself is still high which confuses the YM3812.
486 is the fastest system you would want to put a SB1.0-to-SBPro1 in.
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby Jepael » 2017-4-19 @ 19:01

James-F wrote:As others said, the SBPro CT1330 is very sensitive to clock speed just like SB1.x and SB2.0 or other OPL2 (YM3812) cards.
A Socket 7 will not do even with both caches disabled because the clock itself is still high which confuses the YM3812.
486 is the fastest system you would want to put a SB1.0-to-SBPro1 in.


I have a CT1320 (SB 1.X) currently in a 1200MHz Duron, caches enabled. At least Monkey Island crashes due to calibration loop running in zero time so I get division by zero unless I disable caches.
But for example Wolf3D has no issues.
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby keropi » 2017-4-19 @ 19:35

I have found it's not the hardware that has issues but the software, it's the same deal as some games running OK and others running insanely fast on newer systems. When it comes to sound the card might not get detected or play garbage.
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby Android8675 » 2017-4-19 @ 21:57

keropi wrote:^ -5v rail was standard on AT PSUs but optional in ATX ones. Early ATX ones had it but a recent 500W with a -5v rail is almost impossible to come across. Take a look at the ATX plug the PSU has, see if you have a WHITE wire or it's missing completely. Chances are there is an empty pin on your ATX plug...


Gonna check this, is there any easy way to get -5v out of a modern PSU, or should I just start looking for one that has it?
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby Android8675 » 2017-4-27 @ 22:25

Ugg, so ATX12V Spec, v2.0 was the last revision to "require" that the -5v line be connected. This was way back in February, 2003. Starting to wonder if I should scrap this entire system or get a different sound card for it.

P3/500Mhz/slot1 - What are my limitations for sound? Should I avoid all ISA cards, or is it just the OPL2 cards that are gonna have problems?

Was thinking a cheap AWE64? What's a good soundcard with a MIDI daughterboard connector and MPU-401?
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby cyclone3d » 2017-4-28 @ 01:09

Android8675 wrote:Ugg, so ATX12V Spec, v2.0 was the last revision to "require" that the -5v line be connected. This was way back in February, 2003. Starting to wonder if I should scrap this entire system or get a different sound card for it.

P3/500Mhz/slot1 - What are my limitations for sound? Should I avoid all ISA cards, or is it just the OPL2 cards that are gonna have problems?

Was thinking a cheap AWE64? What's a good soundcard with a MIDI daughterboard connector and MPU-401?


Here is a new ATX PSU that has -5v.

Not sure of the brand/quality , but it is sold a few different places.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ePower-EP-450XP-P3BW-120mm-Fan-ATX12V-450W-Power-Supply-PSU-/351398454240?hash=item51d0fae3e0:g:01kAAOSwnipWZgRX

Edit: found a review of one of their old 1200w units, and it seems to be a good brand.
http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=71&limit=1&limitstart=0
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Re: SBPro (CT1330A) + LAPC-I, Best System for em?

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-4-28 @ 04:41

Cards that require -5V:
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=42781

TL:DR, it's not that many.
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