I didn't know that Pacific Strike was originally for MT-32. 😀 It does not seem to use any custom timbres for music, only for some sound effects, while Strike Commander uses custom timbres heavily (and very effectively). Origin's Audio CD Volume 3 uses the GM versions as well, so I had always assumed that GM was the composition target.

I have to disagree that GM was new in 1994 --- Sierra had been using it for two years already. Was Pacific Strike delayed?

The song mentioned by the thread OP is number eight in GAMEFLOW.MID/GAMEFLOW.ROL. On AdLib/MT-32, it's a duplicate of COMBAT.ROL's number eighteen. On General MIDI, it's a unique song. (The GM versions of both songs are on the Origin Audio CD Volume 3. COMBAT.MID #18 is Track 10 "Credits (Pacific Strike)", while GAMEFLOW.MID #8 (which only exists in General MIDI) is Track 11 "Big Band-O-Rama (Pacific Strike)".

I suspect that the files inside the Adlib/MT-32 files were mixed-up, and that the composer might still have an MT-32 version of "Big Band-O-Rama" lying around.

Scali wrote:

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Result is that a totally unrepresentative amount of games has MT-32 support, which most people now use as a 'fact' to show all the other hipsters that MT-32 was THE music standard in the days of DOS gaming.
Reality is that there are a ton of games with MT-32 support which hardly anyone ever got to hear, because hardly anyone ever even came near a PC with MT-32 setup.
I didn't even see MT-32/LAPC-I in computer shops at the time. They probably didn't bother to stock them, because they were out of the price range of their average customer anyway.
I only saw them in music shops.

I'm two pages late to the topic but I wanted to quote this in agreement anyway.

This. A million times this.

Take my anectodal experience; I have been using PCs as a home productivity device since 1991, but my gaming computer between 1989-1992 was an Amiga 500. I got a 486 DX33 with whopping 8MBs of ram, an 213MB Quantum HDD, an SB Pro 2.0 and a Cirrus Logic VLB graphics card in 1993 (actually my dad got the home one) so you could say we were fairly well off at the time - this thing cost over $2000 at the time if memory serves!

And even so, I had never, ever, never ever seen a Roland MT-32 unit well until after it was obsoleted by GM wavetables. Ironically, coming from the PCM Audio of Amiga's Paula, I was completely disillusioned by how poor the FM Synthesis of the SB Pro 2.0 sounded and immediately thought there HAD TO be a better choice, looked around, and found nothing. Nobody even knew about the MT-32, not one computer shop. The MT-32 was absolutely non-existent probably because it was out of the budget range of anyone who would be interested. To this day, I have not seen one in person, and the only people who I can discuss MIDI modules with are musicians who were into synths in the 90s. Even people who were hardcore into PCs in the 90s go "Whoa wait the Rloand what? Is that a sound card?"

The number of games that support MT-32 audio but lack General MIDI is astounding to me. There is a lot of great stuff in this thread about how and why it was so prevalent, but I find it amusing that the 80s/90s developing for the bleeding edge mentality of the PC gaming scene of yore devolved into today's AAA bullshit of catering to the lowest common denominator (i.e. shitty consoles)..

I like that LGR also mentions this in his video: https://youtu.be/JiZOxUhQj10
He says he basically only knew of the MT-32 from the setup options in games, and when he first saw an actual MT-32 unit, he was surprised it wasn't a sound card, as he originally assumed.

NewRisingSun wrote:

I have to disagree that GM was new in 1994 --- Sierra had been using it for two years already. Was Pacific Strike delayed?
.

He said that GM was brand new during the creation of PS. It could easily have been created in 1992 and taken 2 yrs to get out the door. Heck, Strike Commander was released in 93, which means it was created between 91-92, and it included GM, so its GM was implemented WAY early in GM's life. But I do seem to remember reading stories about long development times for these games, so they could have been started even earlier than 2 yrs prior to release.

I'm not going to argue that MT32 ownership was common amonst gamers because it wasn't . But quoting LGR is a bit laugable, he was born in 86 so the MT32 had pretty much come and gone by the time he turned 7! I was born in 66 and was in my early 20's when the MT32 was a thing. As a gamer I was well aware of Roland for gaming well before I bought my LAPCI in 91.

lvader wrote:

I'm not going to argue that MT32 ownership was common amonst gamers because it wasn't . But quoting LGR is a bit laugable, he was born in 86 so the MT32 had pretty much come and gone by the time he turned 7! I was born in 66 and was in my early 20's when the MT32 was a thing. As a gamer I was well aware of Roland for gaming well before I bought my LAPCI in 91.

Yep, I'm about the same age. I was aware of the MT-32 because my brother had one, then when he upgraded to Sound Canvas, handed it down to me. I'm sure it was something most people didn't know about, but I can only go by my own experience.

lvader wrote:

I'm not going to argue that MT32 ownership was common amonst gamers because it wasn't . But quoting LGR is a bit laugable, he was born in 86 so the MT32 had pretty much come and gone by the time he turned 7!

How so? Those MT-32s didn't magically go up in smoke in the early 90s.
I still have my SB Pro 2.0 and my GUS from the 90s, I'm pretty sure, especially given the price, that most MT-32 owners would have held onto theirs long after their heyday.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if many MT-32 owners didn't solely use it for gaming, but also used it as part of their home studio.

lvader wrote:

As a gamer I was well aware of Roland for gaming well before I bought my LAPCI in 91.

I was aware of the MT-32 and other Roland devices as well, then again, I am also a musician, so my view may have been somewhat slanted (I also owned an Atari ST solely for using CuBase). I'm pretty sure my fellow gamers were not quite as aware of what the MT-32 was.
Also, did you buy the LAPC-I just for gaming, or did you also use it for music creation?

I knew about midi because I'd owned an Atari ST but had no musical aspirations what so ever, I baught the LAPCI purely for gaming. My only source of informatuin for really wanting to get it was PC gaming mags and the odd gaming expo. If those were the main sorces for getting the word out about the Rolands then that ended once support atopped.I juat remember the hype around Rolands orchestral sound in games like Wing Commnader being huge.it didn't really matter that most peoples experience fell short of that because they only had a sound blaster. Hype sells games and gaming mags.

NewRisingSun wrote:

I suspect that the files inside the Adlib/MT-32 files were mixed-up, and that the composer might still have an MT-32 version of "Big Band-O-Rama" lying around.

@clueless1: Since you already had contact with him, could you ask him?

NewRisingSun wrote:

NewRisingSun wrote:

I suspect that the files inside the Adlib/MT-32 files were mixed-up, and that the composer might still have an MT-32 version of "Big Band-O-Rama" lying around.

@clueless1: Since you already had contact with him, could you ask him?

I'd hate to abuse his kindness in responding to me. I made the connection on linkedin, and flat out asked my question in my 250 character connection request, since I wasn't sure he'd connect with me without some context. I also sent him youtube links to the two versions for reference. I suppose I could point him to this thread and if he's interested/inclined, he could register and respond. But even that to me seems a bit pushy.

If you haven't thanked him for his reply, you could certainly explain where the question came from while doing so (with reference to this discussion and the Vogons community). If I were an author and published a book which cited him as a primary source, I would certainly inform him of publication so he could see how the material was used. Same thing here.

Okay guys, Paul Baker (the gentleman who composed the music for Pacific Strike, Apache Longbow, and others) has given me permission to paste our conversation here. I have asked him if he'd be willing to field questions from anyone here who has any for him, and he said he'd give it a go. Please keep the questions limited to his time with Origin, or gaming music-related, and as he said "don't get your hopes up too high". Here's our conversation:

me:

Hi Paul, just a fan of your music from your days at Origin. Was wondering if you could tell me the story of the two different songs in Pacific Strike's View Objects Menu? The MT-32 version is a more traditional WW2 sim song while the General MIDI song has a Big Band style to it. Thanks!

Paul:

I'm amazed anyone still remembers Pacific Strike, much less has a question! Thanks for getting in touch. […]
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I'm amazed anyone still remembers Pacific Strike, much less has a question! Thanks for getting in touch.

I honestly have no idea why the two tunes are different. They shouldn't have been. I can think of two possible explanations. First, programmer error. I created the files and uploaded them to the project server where the programmers would install them into the game. It's entirely possible the programmer just missed one in the process. The last portion of the pre-ship period was mandatory crunch hours so there were a lot of very tired and overworked people trying to push PS out the door in order to make the financial Quarter numbers.

Second, the game was originally written for MT-32. General Midi was a brand new development during the creation of PS and I had to go back through all my MT-32 files and create GM versions. It's possible I omitted the file and the programmers installed the only file they had.

Those are the only reasonable explanations I can think of. As we used to say at Origin, "It's not a bug, it's a feature!"

me:

I appreciate the reply, Paul. I'd only ever known the more upbeat 'big band' version, as I played the game originally with a GM […]
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I appreciate the reply, Paul. I'd only ever known the more upbeat 'big band' version, as I played the game originally with a GM module. Recently I acquired an MT-32 though, and went back to listen to some old games on it and picked out the song difference immediately. Then I switched to FM and the composition is the same as MT-32. Here's the MT-32 version:
https://youtu.be/Gchs3opURZA?t=105
and the GM version:
https://youtu.be/FXq6OouGzbw?list=PLhT9gKHUZZ … M8M0-lj2K&t=125

Neat to get some behind the scenes scoopage from the source.

I did want to share that I am a member of a retro PC and gaming community that has a lot of focus on DOS, GM, and MT-32 topics. That helps explain where my question came from. I did share part of your response with our community, but I left your name out for some semblance of at least Google Search privacy, since I hadn't thought to ask your permission. If you are unhappy with that, please let me know and I will edit as appropriate. Here is the link to the topic:
Origin System's transition from MT-32 to General MIDI

You are welcome to participate if you wish, for the most part we are a friendly community. Lots of very knowledgeable folks there.

Paul:

I haven't been involved with the computer game industry in at least 10 years, if not more. I'm happy to discuss my time at Origin, but I really don't know much more beyond that. I never was a gamer, just a composer who wrote music for a few games. I also did music for the Jane's Longbow Apache helicopter game, fwiw. Nothing much else to speak of. I contributed a few files to other games, but not enough to take any credit for.

Btw, You're free to copy/paste my responses to your questions or our entire conversation if you want.

me:

That's very kind of you, Paul. I appreciate your time. Would you be open to answering Origin, music, etc. questions from other members of our community? If so, I can let them know on the forum, they can post questions, and I can forward them to you here. You'd be free to answer or not as you felt fit, and I could copy/paste back to the topic there. I'm sure I could come up with questions myself related to your time working with Origin. They were my favorite gaming company back in the day. The games were entertaining, and the music was always top notch.

Paul:

I was only there for 2 1/2 years and we were mostly on different projects so I don't have much, if any, knowledge beyond my own experiences there. I'm happy to answer what I can, but don't get your hopes up too high.

I just want him to know that I play Janes Longbow to this day and that game wouldnt be the same without his music.

appiah4 wrote:

I just want him to know that I play Janes Longbow to this day and that game wouldnt be the same without his music.

I will pass that along. Anyone else have any questions for Paul? Here's a couple I could think of:
1) what was the process for composing music and sounds for a PC game in the DOS era? Did you start on paper, keyboard, some other instrument? How did you get your compositions into electronic format to submit? What is the process of converting your compositions into FM vs MIDI? Or is that done by the programmers?

2) What can you tell me about the transition from MT-32 to General MIDI? Do you recall what the attitude was like for game developers vs. game music composers? In other words, was it just another format, or was it a big deal and discussed a lot?

Good questions, how about the one below?

Was there any concern that the music might sound quite different with different implementations of the General Midi standard? Would you test/ evaluate a single platform (Roland Sound Canvas) or try a few others like Yamaha XG or Creative Labs AWE?

- Do you know why Origin etc were so focused on Mt32 while not many gamers actually had those devices? Because of some deal or genuine belief that this is the future?
(Feel free to word it better 😉)

Okay, I submitted the 4 questions as well as the comment about Longbow's music.

@Dominus - here's how I phrased your question:

Do you have any idea why the MT-32 was even supported during that time? It seems that so few PC gamers even had one. Did Roland have some sort of financial deal with the game companies that made it worth the investment for them to create for the MT-32? Or was it just a desire for game makers to push the envelope not only graphically but auditorily?

Thanks, sounds much better than what I wrote 😉

Wow, Paul already had an opportunity to answer our questions! Before we get to the questions and answers, though, I have this for appiah4 😀

First, please thank the person for the Jane's mention. I'm actually more proud of the music I wrote for the Jane's generic opener which was used on all their products, at least for awhile. I do recall some of the Longbow music specifically and remember learning some new compositional techniques with that project.

So, here we go...

1) what was the process for composing music and sounds for a PC game in the DOS era? Did you start on paper, keyboard, some other instrument? How did you get your compositions into electronic format to submit? What is the process of converting your compositions into FM vs MIDI? Or is that done by the programmers?

In the DOS era, we used Cakewalk DOS, as rudimentary as it was. When tools are comparatively limited, you're forced to find ways […]
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In the DOS era, we used Cakewalk DOS, as rudimentary as it was. When tools are comparatively limited, you're forced to find ways to use them creatively so we had custom sys ex and CAL routines. Usually, though, the biggest drawback was the hardware since we were doing MIDI and were severely limited in voice count. I was MUCH happier to get Cakewalk 3 running in Windows. It was practically reflexive after awhile. Any thought I had, I could realize it pretty quickly.

Compositionally, I used a combination of paper and computer. I might sketch out some themes or ostinati (fancy word for "riffs") and then go into the sequencer via a MIDI keyboard. My personal process is to work from beginning to end so I would find my starting point, and then write what I heard to be coming next. Files had a general overall length requirement so once I had some basic material for a piece, I could then look at ways to reuse that material throughout the piece until the required length was met or exceeded.

Compositions ended up as .mid files and were uploaded to the project server where the programmers would install them into the game.

We, the composers, were in charge of format conversion to FM, although I think I did that only once, for Pacific Strike. By that time, GM had come along and FM was unsupported. I don't recall exactly how we did the FM conversions, (maybe a custom version of Cakewalk DOS? It's been 25 years...) but I know that I had the MT-32 or GM files first, and then whittled those down to the essential musical elements.

2) What can you tell me about the transition from MT-32 to General MIDI? Do you recall what the attitude was like for game developers vs. game music composers? In other words, was it just another format, or was it a big deal and discussed a lot?

For composers, the move to GM was a godsend. We loved it. Better quality sounds and more of them. I don't know what was involved from a programming standpoint, but I remember that an edict came down from EA (Origin had recently been purchased by EA at that time) that all new titles would support GM, and our programmers were NOT happy because they now had to accommodate the new files along with the original MT-32 files. I don't know what all that entailed exactly since I wasn't involved in any of that work.

3) Was there any concern that the music might sound quite different with different implementations of the General Midi standard? Would you test/ evaluate a single platform (Roland Sound Canvas) or try a few others like Yamaha XG or Creative Labs AWE?

We were aware that there would be variations, not so much in sound qualities but sound levels. Different manufacturers had different inherent volumes for some of their patches, but since there were so many different implementations and we were still shipping on floppies at that time, we couldn't provided sets of scores for every platform. We essentially crossed our fingers and hoped it would be ok. The Roland Sound Canvas was our gold standard.

4) Do you have any idea why the MT-32 was even supported during that time? It seems that so few PC gamers even had one. Did Roland have some sort of financial deal with the game companies that made it worth the investment for them to create for the MT-32? Or was it just a desire for game makers to push the envelope not only graphically but auditorily?

The MT-32 was supported because Origin was known for pushing the edge of technology - CPU, graphics, and audio - and the MT-32 sounded a lot better than FM and was still programmable for sfx. There was no deal with Roland. Strike Commander is an excellent example of the MT-32 used to its fullest. Neno Vugrinec did the music and audio for the game and it's fantastic. He also did Privateer and Ultima 8.

So, that was pretty cool, eh? 😀

Dominus, thanks for the encouragement to reach out and contact Paul. He's incredibly friendly and gracious, and was a pleasure to communicate with. He didn't ask me to, but I wanted to give him a plug for his kindness. Here's his current gig:

Baker's Jazz And More
owner/composer
Company NameBaker's Jazz And More
Dates EmployedOct 2006 – Present Employment Duration10 yrs 10 mos
Baker's Jazz And More is Paul Baker's publishing and retail company specializing in original jazz big band and marching band compositions and arrangements for school programs from middle school through college levels.
Freelance Musician
Studio musician
Company NameFreelance Musician
Dates EmployedSep 1977 – Present Employment Duration39 yrs 11 mos
Freelance musician performing on all saxes, clarinets, and flutes, as well as composition, orchestration, and arranging.

He's in the Austin, TX area.

That was quick and very informative. Great answers!