Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby ommadawnyawn » 2017-8-02 @ 19:21

I'm making a list of PC DOS games with sample-based music produced by Sound Blaster cards (SB1.0-SB AWE64), as opposed to FM music (Adlib) and sampled SFX or speech, or FM music mixed with samples (such as Zone 66), or sample-based music on any other device, or CD audio. I'm looking for any sample-based music, including midi (unless it's glitchy) and wav files.

Any examples you can think of are appreciated, the more obscure the better.

Related question: What was the best you could do with an AWE32 or 64 card back in ~1997 and back, in terms of expansions and soundfonts? Does limiting the OS to DOS or Win 3.1 change the answer a lot?

Mobygames lists of Sound Blaster supported games:
http://www.mobygames.com/attribute/shee ... Id,40/p,2/
http://www.mobygames.com/attribute/shee ... buteId,17/

This SB list will be a part of a bigger project, compiling the most impressive music made for retro (up to 32-bit gen for now with a couple of exceptions) sound devices: http://minirevver.weebly.com/impressive ... -chip.html


Most recent list (roughly in order of sound design quality), keep checking every other day if you're interested in this:
http://minirevver.weebly.com/sound-blas ... music.html
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby ommadawnyawn » 2017-8-03 @ 20:51

Removed, see updated list above.
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby ommadawnyawn » 2017-8-04 @ 17:37

Current list of games I need to look into more. If anyone can confirm anything about them or upload a SB midi, wav or mod music sample then I'd appreciate it.
http://minirevver.weebly.com/sb-pcm-find.html
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby leileilol » 2017-8-06 @ 23:49

Loads of MIDI games on this list already. :|
Voodoo2s aren't 100mhz stock
Geforce256 isn't released as a beta on New Years '99 under the Quadro brand
DOS gaming isn't a bilinear 320x200 16:10
DOS PCs aren't better than the Macintosh
DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
SGL != Glide
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby ommadawnyawn » 2017-8-07 @ 02:05

Yes? Elaborate.
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby Rawit » 2017-8-07 @ 07:05

Not sure what you are exactly looking for? "sample-based music (such as Jazz Jackrabbit)" is something different than playing back MIDI on an AWE32.
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby ommadawnyawn » 2017-8-07 @ 10:52

Any sample-based music, including midi and wav files.
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby Rawit » 2017-8-07 @ 11:41

MIDI != sample based music. In the second list I see some games that only support MT-32 for "sample" based music and Sound Blaster for sfx only. You can get music out of those games on an AWE32/64, but it's not what I call direct support. But if that fits the scope than you're looking for all MT-32, General Midi & Module music based games and that's a huge list.
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby ommadawnyawn » 2017-8-07 @ 12:08

I know. I'm interested in unofficial support as long as it works properly and doesn't sound terrible, wasn't going to include it but after hearing these and a few other examples I thought they'd be worth it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh0QIFQwKPc

As I asked in the AWE32 thread yesterday, I'm interested in what could be achieved back in ~1997 and earlier though, trying to roughly keep things to a 16-bit/fourth gen time frame. So later solutions will be sorted out later.

Edit:
Obviously it's a big list but so what? I'm just asking here because I thought people would know about obscure examples that I might miss. I'm going through the 250 "most popular" games per year on Mobygames, 1993-1996 left to do.
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby leileilol » 2017-8-07 @ 20:59

"So what"? You're pretty much making a useless misinformation list without any effort going into basic research.
Voodoo2s aren't 100mhz stock
Geforce256 isn't released as a beta on New Years '99 under the Quadro brand
DOS gaming isn't a bilinear 320x200 16:10
DOS PCs aren't better than the Macintosh
DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x
SGL != Glide
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby ommadawnyawn » 2017-8-07 @ 21:36

Asking about it on this forum isn't research? Just fuck off, please.
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-8-07 @ 22:15

How many posts and I still have no idea what your point is.

Protip: GM isn't the same as the sample based audio used in Star Control 2, One Must Fall, and Crusader. GM files don't specify the entirety of a composition. Different synthesizers can produce very different output. Sample based audio is much more consistent because sample based music encodes the instrument waveforms as well as timing, tone, and volume for each played note.
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby ommadawnyawn » 2017-8-07 @ 22:46

Does this rephrasing make it clearer?
I'm making a list of PC DOS games with sample-based music produced by Sound Blaster cards (SB1.0-SB AWE64), as opposed to FM music (Adlib) and sampled SFX or speech, or FM music mixed with samples (such as Zone 66), or sample-based music on any other device, or CD audio. I'm looking for any sample-based music, including midi (unless it's glitchy) and wav files.

I know it sounds different depending on the device, that's the point of including midi in the list. What I don't know is what could be done back in ~1997 or earlier with expansions and soundfonts, which is interesting in the "retro chips" context.
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby jheronimus » 2017-8-08 @ 00:16

ommadawnyawn wrote:Does this rephrasing make it clearer?


Well, it's just confusing to call midi/wavetable music "sample-based". Sample-based means that the music file for the game actually comes with all the needed samples (as opposed to using samples from a MIDI device's ROM such as the AWE32). Sample-based music is more or less device-independent. Wavetable/GM is not.

Say, Epic Pinball uses sample-based music, and you don't need AWE32 (or any other GM-compatible device) for that. Any SoundBlaster 16 (or any of its clones) can play that music. Gravis Ultrasound cards produce higher quality music in this game, but it's not using different samples. Also, you can't use soundfonts (i.e. sample sets) to get Epic Pinball to sound differently.

Games that list support for AWE32 are just protected-mode games that can work with AWE32's implementation of General MIDI. Also, there are relatively few games with sample-based music, but there are LOTS of games with wavetable music. It's just that AWE32 has compatibility issues with some games that were released before it came to the market.
Socket 7: Pentium 166; 64MB RAM; Matrox Millenium+Voodoo 1; AWE32 PnP w/28MB + GUS PnP Pro w/8MB
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby ommadawnyawn » 2017-8-08 @ 01:23

"Games that list support for AWE32 are just protected-mode games that can work with AWE32's implementation of General MIDI"
Ok, and what does that info mean for the list?

"as opposed to using samples from a MIDI device's ROM"
I mean, that's still sample-based music. I don't think it's that big of a leap as to be confusing; If I'm looking for sample-based SB music for this list then the midi music just needs to use samples only to be relevant to it. The soundfonts and ram expansions complicates things though and I don't know much about that bit, which is partly why I asked here in the first place.

Do you agree with this explanation of wavetable synthesis, or is it different in this context? It's how it was explained to me on another forum.
"In the context of video game sound hardware, 'wavetable synthesis' is a) mostly a marketing term and b) usually refers to oscillators that are fed with wave forms from RAM. This isn't dramatically different from PCM, except that in a wavetable chip RAM is much more limited. As a result, the wave forms have to be fairly simple as there isn't enough space to work with samples from real instruments."

So I took it to mean a more limited form of sample-based music (although this was about NEC PC Engine and Nintendo FDS, older consoles). You're drawing from stored waveform samples rather than having them generated by the chip like with PSG or FM, so is it really wrong to just say sample-based music as an umbrella term?

MOD music still has different sound quality and (sometimes) stereo mixing on SB vs. GUS.

I don't know that much about MOD vs. MIDI composing, but to me the results seem similar enough to be in the same category. I'll probably sort the unofficial AWE32/64 midi music separately under the homebrew category though after this first draft is done, unless there are objections to that.
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-8-08 @ 16:44

ommadawnyawn wrote: don't know that much about MOD vs. MIDI composing, but to me the results seem similar enough to be in the same category.


They are not.

MIDI music is like this:
Image

where MOD (and sample based) music is more like this:
Image

Instead of what you're doing, why not see how many games besides Dungeon Keeper actually used the EMU8000 chip for hardware audio mixing?
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby ommadawnyawn » 2017-8-08 @ 19:21

I said that I think the end result of sample-based midi music vs mod music are similar enough (sound quality wise) to be in the same category. But thanks for the big pictures, makes it easier for my tiny brain to understand. :P

You mean AWE32 games with custom instruments? I have this list from nerdly pleasures so far:
Battle Arena Toshinden - find
Dungeon Keeper (ambient sfx as part of the music)
Eradicator
Hi-Octane
Magic Carpet 2 - find
Nerves of Steel - find
Perfect General II - find
Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri - find music rip

Otherwise, I don't even know how to check that.
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby gdjacobs » 2017-8-08 @ 19:41

The way I see it, there's three tiers of support for the AWE32 and AWE64:

1) Operates as a SB16, optionally with the TSR providing access to the EMU synthesizer.
2) Directly addresses the EMU chip but uses the default soundfont off the ROM.
3) Directly addresses the EMU chip and uploads custom sound effects, hardware audio processing, or both.

I would think the place to begin is testing different game settings and different sound devices (SB16 vs AWE32) to find what changes cause a difference in sound.
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby ommadawnyawn » 2017-8-08 @ 20:26

Right, well we do have the AWE32 support list from mobygames which is hopefully complete. I'll start comparing that to the list after I've gone through 1993-1996 (I'm still finding some good Adlib music to add to my older OPL2 & 3 lists now and then), then I'll start looking at each game more thoroughly and try different settings.

Edit:
I've checked with Rkhive.com's site owner (Nick) which soundfonts are from back in the day. He couldn't give specific dates but said that 1990-1998 should probably cover what's on his site:
Best Trumpet
Chaos Bank v1.9
Heavy Drums GM
JNS-GM 2
Masterpiece
Music Theory 2
Unison
AWE ROM GM Synth by Skie
ROM Samples by Fox-Gieg / Romo
Silly Synths ROM
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Re: Sound Blaster sample-based OST list?

Postby jheronimus » 2017-8-09 @ 00:14

gdjacobs wrote:The way I see it, there's three tiers of support for the AWE32 and AWE64:

1) Operates as a SB16, optionally with the TSR providing access to the EMU synthesizer.
2) Directly addresses the EMU chip but uses the default soundfont off the ROM.
3) Directly addresses the EMU chip and uploads custom sound effects, hardware audio processing, or both.

I would think the place to begin is testing different game settings and different sound devices (SB16 vs AWE32) to find what changes cause a difference in sound.


Could you name an example of a game that does number 3? Just curious
Socket 7: Pentium 166; 64MB RAM; Matrox Millenium+Voodoo 1; AWE32 PnP w/28MB + GUS PnP Pro w/8MB
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