Yamaha MU2000EX

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby ElBrunzy » 2018-5-11 @ 01:02

Since it's specific to the mu?000ex and undocumented in the mu128 english manual, anyone know and would be so kind to explain what the "System->out=Mixed / AD_Direct / AD_Direct+M" actually does ?
User avatar
ElBrunzy
Member
 
Posts: 451
Joined: 2014-1-26 @ 03:50
Location: Quebec / Canada

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby Cloudschatze » 2018-5-11 @ 04:25

This is better-documented in MU2000ExJ.PDF, but basically:

Mixed (default)
Digital Output = Tone Generator + A/D Input
Analog Output = Tone Generator + A/D Input

AD_Direct
Digital Output = A/D Input
Analog Output = Tone Generator

AD_Direct+M
Digital Output = A/D Input
Analog Output = Tone Generator + A/D Input
User avatar
Cloudschatze
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: 2005-6-16 @ 14:32

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby ElBrunzy » 2018-5-11 @ 04:41

Cloudschatze wrote:
ElBrunzy wrote:But the weird thing is that as soon as I enter in mode menu (even if I change nothing) it reset to the mic mode.

<SYSTEM>
←AD PartLock=on →

Hi Cloudschatze, I'm about to go crazy, I beleive I'm doing something wrong. I did put ad partlock at on on setup, but it continue to go back to MIC when I change the mode.

Here is what I do, let say I just open the mu1000ex:
- I go to part A/D1 by pressing part -
- Then I change part to 018, stereo synth, and then select ST KBD preset, now it's working allright
- I press the enter key so it show me the value, press again and the snow on tv animation goes on (dont know what it mean)
- then I press exit, mode and as soon as I switch from XG to GS it fall back to MIC for A/D 1 :angry:

I does the same with the mu128 so hopefully I'm just doing something wrong. I'll continue my reading of the manual, but any other pointer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
User avatar
ElBrunzy
Member
 
Posts: 451
Joined: 2014-1-26 @ 03:50
Location: Quebec / Canada

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby Cloudschatze » 2018-5-11 @ 05:42

ElBrunzy wrote:- I press the enter key so it show me the value, press again and the snow on tv animation goes on (dont know what it mean)

The static-filled television animation just indicates that the displayed SysEx message is being transmitted via the MIDI Out or To Host port. There's no need to press enter when switching between modes though - simply selecting a mode enters into it.

- then I press exit, mode and as soon as I switch from XG to GS it fall back to MIC for A/D 1 :angry:

I'm not able to duplicate this behavior with my MU100. That is, with AD PartLock set to on, I'm able to switch between the XG, TG300B, and C/M modes without losing the A/D settings. Switching to Performance mode causes it to reset (as documented).

For your situation/models, perhaps it's just some quirk of the panel operations. While in XG mode, if you play a GS MIDI file (or vice-versa), do the A/D settings still get reset, or are they retained?
User avatar
Cloudschatze
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: 2005-6-16 @ 14:32

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby ElBrunzy » 2018-5-11 @ 06:54

Cloudschatze wrote:For your situation/models, perhaps it's just some quirk of the panel operations. While in XG mode, if you play a GS MIDI file (or vice-versa), do the A/D settings still get reset, or are they retained?


Thanks for the precision about the TV, I have finished reading the manual and you are right.

About the A/D I ended up thinking that it's for sysex message. I made some sysex-reset for gs,gm and xg with cakewalk and midi-ox and yes, it retain the A/D setup if the setting is at on and reset the A/D if it's at off. But, I was talking about using the MODE button on the front panel. On the manual it mention that it reset the XG or GS to it's factory default. I think it's stupid that it reset the A/D as I fail to see how it is related to midi mode and it's also rather long to setup correctly.

Unless you bring another venue (maybe it's possible to edit the factory default?) I'll try to settle on XG or GS and use a sysex to reset the MU if a midi music change the mode. I guess it's because the device is new to me that I keep on evaluating each mode.

:EDIT: if I compare the mode change NOTE from the mu128 with the mu100, and I beleive the mu100 would behave he same.
MU100 page 74 wrote:The simple operation below lets you instantly restore the factory preset values.
Since it automatically cancels any edits you’ve made, you should use it with
care.

MU128 page 104 wrote:When the Sound Module mode is changed (page170), all settings in each mode
will be initialized to their factory values. However, you can use the Dump Out
function to save your settings to a MIDI data storage device. (See page 162.)
User avatar
ElBrunzy
Member
 
Posts: 451
Joined: 2014-1-26 @ 03:50
Location: Quebec / Canada

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby Cloudschatze » 2018-5-11 @ 17:45

ElBrunzy wrote:But, I was talking about using the MODE button on the front panel.

I know. So was I, concerning the behavior of my MU100.

:EDIT: if I compare the mode change NOTE from the mu128 with the mu100, and I beleive the mu100 would behave he same.

No, despite sharing the same verbiage, I've verified that I can switch back and forth between the XG, TG300B, and C/M modes on the MU100, via the front-panel operations, without it resetting the A/D parameters. That said, if I manually "initialize" the XG, TG300B or C/M modes via the front panel, through the INITIAL > XG Init, INITIAL > GM Init, or INITIAL > C/MInit procedures, the A/D settings are indeed lost.

It seems like Yamaha must have changed this behavior with the MU128 and later modules. To summarize, where A/D PartLock has been enabled, and excluding a switch to Performance Mode:

MU100 (and MU80/90, presumably)
Panel Mode change: A/D settings are retained
Panel Mode initialization: A/D settings are reset
SysEx Mode change: A/D settings are retained

MU128 and later
Panel Mode change: A/D settings are reset
Panel Mode initialization: A/D settings are reset
SysEx Mode change: A/D settings are retained
User avatar
Cloudschatze
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: 2005-6-16 @ 14:32

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby RetroGC » 2018-5-18 @ 21:14

Just a question. I've finally bought a recent sound blaster ZX to make digital recording from Mu2000EX inside WIndows 10.
Now, as digital output of MU2000EX, is really low (imho), I've decided to set Digital Gain to+12db and make some recording, BUY as song change, digital output reset to 0 :(
Is there a way to keep it fixed to +12 or to +6? I'm using Falcon Soft midiplayer for recording.
Thank you
Aldo
My Videogames Music Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/RetroGamesClub
RetroGC
Newbie
 
Posts: 69
Joined: 2018-2-12 @ 07:22
Location: Rome

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby SuperDeadite » 2018-5-19 @ 08:57

An XG or GS reset will not change the system settings (like digital gain, mu100 native, etc).
But a full System Reset will reset everything to default settings.
Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, Dreamblaster X2
SuperDeadite
Member
 
Posts: 117
Joined: 2017-6-09 @ 10:46

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby Tandgnissle » 2018-5-22 @ 12:41

I might as well ask. I got one of these as well a few years ago and I've connected it via the USB plug using Yamahas drivers. Have anyone else had the trouble of the computer hard locking upon turning the 2000 off or pulling the usb cable (running x64 win10)? It works fine of course running on a virtual x32 winXP machine (in jp locale since mojibake is a scourge). Stand alone USB midi interfaces works fine of course.

Speaking of which. I've been looking a bit on the UW500 (due to it both being a midi interface, having a toslink input as well as standard inputs) and see that no recent drivers have been released that mentions win10. It would suck if windows crashed when powering down the unit after getting one.
Tandgnissle
Newbie
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 2017-10-04 @ 22:44

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby SuperDeadite » 2018-5-22 @ 17:09

AFAIK, Yamaha just has one USB-MIDI driver that works with all their USB-MIDI based devices. As the UW500 is generally considered obsolete (10bit DAC), they probably just never bothered to add the Win10 line to it's download area.

Now, I use Win 7, not 10, so I can't comment on that. But my UW works fine on 7 and is my main audio device. Now like most older USB devices, it is not good to turn it off or unplug it when Windows is running, and this can cause Windows to freeze. However if I tell Windows to stop the device first, I can then turn it off without issue. Since it is my main audio device, I normally just let the computer shut-down or enter stand-by first. Then I can turn off the UW safely without having to manually "stop" it in Windows.

I have my MU2000 connected to it's TO HOST serial cable, so I can turn it on and off as needed since Windows doesn't have direct access to the MU. It also keeps Windows from touching (and corrupting) my SM Card as well.
Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, Dreamblaster X2
SuperDeadite
Member
 
Posts: 117
Joined: 2017-6-09 @ 10:46

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby Atomic Skull » 2018-5-26 @ 05:33

Can the MU2000 load DLS banks over the USB port or only from the smartmedia card? If it can load DLS over USB does the USB driver support Directmusic (MIDI + DLS)? If you're not sure you can find out by loading winamp and looking at the MIDI plugin config, it'll give a list of available MIDI ports and whether or not each port supports DLS banks.

A lot of games, even some modern ones support MIDI+DLS sound. The recently released Bloodstained Curse of the Moon uses MIDI+DLS for example.
Atomic Skull
Newbie
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 2018-5-26 @ 01:43

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby Falcosoft » 2018-5-26 @ 11:55

Atomic Skull wrote:... If it can load DLS over USB does the USB driver support Directmusic (MIDI + DLS)? If you're not sure you can find out by loading winamp and looking at the MIDI plugin config, it'll give a list of available MIDI ports and whether or not each port supports DLS banks...

Besides Microsost GM/GS soft synth all the other ports are 'emulated' Directmusic ports by wrapping the standard Midi out ports. Under Directmusic there are even 2 versions of MS GM/GS soft synth: the native Directmusic one and the emulated standard Midi out version. As you can see even the MS GM/GS soft synth's emulated/midi out port version does not support DLS. So unfortunately no, other midi out ports do not support DLS either.
Edit:
The only exceptions I have met are some Craetive SB Live/Audigy drivers that implement native Directmusic ports with DLS support.
User avatar
Falcosoft
Oldbie
 
Posts: 872
Joined: 2016-5-21 @ 13:46
Location: Pécs, Hungary

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby Atomic Skull » 2018-5-27 @ 09:04

Falcosoft wrote:
Atomic Skull wrote:... If it can load DLS over USB does the USB driver support Directmusic (MIDI + DLS)? If you're not sure you can find out by loading winamp and looking at the MIDI plugin config, it'll give a list of available MIDI ports and whether or not each port supports DLS banks...

Besides Microsost GM/GS soft synth all the other ports are 'emulated' Directmusic ports by wrapping the standard Midi out ports. Under Directmusic there are even 2 versions of MS GM/GS soft synth: the native Directmusic one and the emulated standard Midi out version. As you can see even the MS GM/GS soft synth's emulated/midi out port version does not support DLS. So unfortunately no, other midi out ports do not support DLS either.
Edit:
The only exceptions I have met are some Craetive SB Live/Audigy drivers that implement native Directmusic ports with DLS support.


MU2000 has a USB driver, it's not just a MIDI device from Yamaha (though you can connect it via MIDI instead of USB if you want) which is why I'm asking. Supposedly it can load DLS sounds but I'm not sure if it can be done over the USB interface or if you have to put them on a smartmedia card.

I have an MU2000 on the way and I'll figure it out eventually I guess.
Atomic Skull
Newbie
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 2018-5-26 @ 01:43

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby Falcosoft » 2018-5-27 @ 11:28

Atomic Skull wrote:MU2000 has a USB driver, it's not just a MIDI device from Yamaha (though you can connect it via MIDI instead of USB if you want) which is why I'm asking. Supposedly it can load DLS sounds but I'm not sure if it can be done over the USB interface or if you have to put them on a smartmedia card.
I have an MU2000 on the way and I'll figure it out eventually I guess.

The physical layer (serial/midi/usb) does not matter. In Windows you can only access your device as output port from Midi software if you install the appropriate standard Midi out (and/or Directmusic) driver. From the perspective of midi software it's irrelevant whether your device is connected via USB or not. So even if you can upload DLS to your device some custom way (via USB you can do this in theory if the vendor provides a utility), you cannot do this via standard Windows midi port interfaces. If in Directmusic your device's port is only an emulated port (your device's standard midi out port wrapped) then you cannot upload DLS via Directmusic. The only option for working DLS handling under Directmusic is if your device has a native Directmusic driver. This is extremely rare and has nothing to do with USB. Nowadays most cables/devices are USB based yet none of them installs native Directmusic drivers (only the standard Win32 Midi drivers that are treated as 'emulated' devices under Directmusic without DLS support). The only exceptions seem to be some older drivers for WinXP (mainly from Creative).
The main reason can be that Directmusic has been officially deprecated/dead for more than a decade (despite the fact that it's newer than Win32's classic Midi infrastructure) and e.g. the 64-bit version of Directmusic has never been fully implemented by MS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectMusic
User avatar
Falcosoft
Oldbie
 
Posts: 872
Joined: 2016-5-21 @ 13:46
Location: Pécs, Hungary

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby ElBrunzy » 2018-6-09 @ 01:54

I wanted to make a sysex command file that would set the stereo A/D to my whiling (that is passing thru a sbpro or a guspnp stereo wave output) but for some reason you cannot set the A/D input type via sysex, the mu1000ex wont tell you that via the convenient [enter] button. Maybe if it's mapped to a receiving program ? I dont know, I would like to have a way to just send a sysex file to pull a A/D configuration.

Of course it's related to the mu128+ reseting the A/D setup when midi type change. I seldom use A/D but it's a pain to configure by hand, so to send a sysex would be a great solution. I think a device dump would work, but I'd like not to change anything about midi synth settings.

also, the rear rca in are not in the digital mix output of the mu1000ex
User avatar
ElBrunzy
Member
 
Posts: 451
Joined: 2014-1-26 @ 03:50
Location: Quebec / Canada

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby yawetaG » 2018-6-10 @ 05:49

ElBrunzy wrote:I wanted to make a sysex command file that would set the stereo A/D to my whiling (that is passing thru a sbpro or a guspnp stereo wave output) but for some reason you cannot set the A/D input type via sysex, the mu1000ex wont tell you that via the convenient [enter] button. Maybe if it's mapped to a receiving program ? I dont know, I would like to have a way to just send a sysex file to pull a A/D configuration.


Isn't the required sysex written in the manual's MIDI specs? Even if that would be in Japanese, I would expect that some comparing with another MU unit's manual would help you out for figuring out what's what (and the sysex strings will be in English).
yawetaG
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1387
Joined: 2016-6-14 @ 14:36
Location: Netherlands

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby Cloudschatze » 2018-6-12 @ 01:10

ElBrunzy wrote:I wanted to make a sysex command file that would set the stereo A/D to my whiling...

A/D Input - Stereo Keyboard (Line, Dry)
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 02 12 F7
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 03 01 F7

A/D Input - Stereo Audio (Line, Dry)
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 02 13 F7
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 03 01 F7

A/D Input (Off)
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 03 00 F7

"AD PartLock" will need to be set to "off" for these to work (obviously).

also, the rear rca in are not in the digital mix output of the mu1000ex

This is by design.
User avatar
Cloudschatze
Oldbie
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: 2005-6-16 @ 14:32

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby ElBrunzy » 2018-6-16 @ 00:18

Cloudschatze wrote:
ElBrunzy wrote:I wanted to make a sysex command file that would set the stereo A/D to my whiling...

A/D Input - Stereo Keyboard (Line, Dry)
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 02 12 F7
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 03 01 F7

A/D Input - Stereo Audio (Line, Dry)
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 02 13 F7
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 03 01 F7

A/D Input (Off)
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 03 00 F7

"AD PartLock" will need to be set to "off" for these to work (obviously).

also, the rear rca in are not in the digital mix output of the mu1000ex

This is by design.


yawetaG : Yep I did read many time the mu128 manual, but the problem is that next model had stereo input and since then command changed and are undocumented in english.

Cloudschatze : I did try all three of you syx informartion but it gave odd results. The third one muted both input both two other just adressed one channel and changed it to a mic source. I would be most interested to know how you constructed those sysex commands as the mu1000ex refuse to inform how to address A/D settings.

Best regards, also thanks for the ad partlock headsup, I would had probably missed that one ;)
User avatar
ElBrunzy
Member
 
Posts: 451
Joined: 2014-1-26 @ 03:50
Location: Quebec / Canada

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby ElBrunzy » 2018-6-18 @ 23:58

re Cloudschatze, I analyzed a second time what you did and I finally understand better how it work. So now it work near perfection but I noticed that after a A/D reset the volume on the channel goes to 64 out of 127. Fortunately there is a sysex to bind the A/D to a midi channel. From there I can set the channel to the desired volume. I think I would need to make a .mid file that send first part of the sysex, then set volume via midi then unbind the A/D. As it dont seem to have a way to set channel volume via sysex, only via midi, which make sence. But is not ideal as I cannot quickly send the sysex file via midi-ox.

But prior to go too far with that, I would like to know your point of view about changing the A/D volume, do you think 64 is best? I wonder why all midi channel default to 100 but A/D default to 64. While the max is 127.

in the meantime here is the A/D config script I'm working on:

unlock partlock
F0 43 10 49 00 00 01 00 F7
set A/D1 to Audio line
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 02 03 F7
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 03 01 F7
set A/D2 to audio line
F0 43 10 4C 10 01 02 03 F7
F0 43 10 4C 10 01 03 01 F7
set receive channel 1 for A/D1
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 04 00 F7
set receive channel 1 for A/D2
F0 43 10 4C 10 01 04 00 F7
:set volume to channel 1 via midi:
unbind receive channel for A/D1
F0 43 10 4C 10 00 04 7F F7
unbind receive channel for A/D2
F0 43 10 4C 10 01 04 7F F7
relock partlock
F0 43 10 49 00 00 01 01 F7
User avatar
ElBrunzy
Member
 
Posts: 451
Joined: 2014-1-26 @ 03:50
Location: Quebec / Canada

Re: Yamaha MU2000EX

Postby SpeedySPCFan » 2018-6-23 @ 02:30

So, I just got a Yamaha MU1000EX recently and I'm really liking it but there's one thing that's making me scratch my head: how the heck do you find an editor for the 1000/2000? I've tried XGWorks 3.0.7E but it doesn't have any support for the two. The highest it goes up to is the MU128Ver2. I also can't find a copy of Yamaha SOL either, and it's frustrating me because I'd really like to have a editor that totally takes advantage of the features on it.

EDIT: I fixed it! For those of you running XGWorks 3.0.7E, you need to go to the "XGEditor" folder in your XGWorks install, open the file xgeditor.ini and replace the [MU Series] line with this:

EDIT 2: I didn't actually fix it. The solution I had to add the MU1000 to the list of available synths makes the 1000 appear, but it's interpreted as a VL-70m. The good news I guess is that saying you have a VL-70m in XG Editor enables all of the MU1000/2000 effects/instruments and you don't even have to edit the INI file. Not sure why that works but hey, it works. Just wish I could use the EX effects.
Musician & music gear/game reviewer. Worked on Planet X3, Necrolepsy, and some FPS mods.

MIDI modules: Roland MT-32 (old model), SC-55 (2.00 ROM), SC-8850, XP-30, Korg NX5R, Triton Extreme, Yamaha MU1000EX. PM me if you want any music recorded in 24-bit quality!
User avatar
SpeedySPCFan
Member
 
Posts: 228
Joined: 2014-10-30 @ 20:34

PreviousNext

Return to Sound

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cyclone3d, FreddyV and 2 guests