VOGONS


First post, by MKT_Gundam

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The Roland Sound Canvas Sc-50 is really good for DOS GM? I never see video on YT or people discussing about. I find one for "fair" price and good condition. Also i found the first SC88 a bit more expensive. SC88 feature MT32 emulation?

Last edited by MKT_Gundam on 2018-03-19, 19:03. Edited 1 time in total.

Retro rig 1: Asus CUV4X, VIA c3 800, Voodoo Banshee (Diamond fusion) and SB32 ct3670.
Retro rig 2: Intel DX2 66, SB16 Ct1740 and Cirrus Logic VLB.

Reply 3 of 17, by CrossBow777

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Far as I know only the original SC-55 has an MT-32 mode and even still it doesn't have the ability to load up the custom patches and just relies on the default sound bank of the MT-32. That means, that while it might map to the MT-32 channels properly for the games that were MT-32 only, it still won't likely sound correct or possible even sound very good.

The SC-88 has an SC-55 map you can switch to for SC-55 compatibility. It is because of this, that I stuck with my MT-200 for sound canvas and general midi stuff, and have an actual MT-32 rev0 daisy chained off the MT-200 through the Midi thru connection.

g883j7-2.png
Midi Modules: MT-32 (OLD), MT-200, MT-300, MT-90S, MT-90U, SD-20

Reply 4 of 17, by SuperDeadite

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The SC-88 Pro has "MT-32 mode", don't have an original 88 though.
The 88-Pro lists it as "C/M Mode" (Computer Music), and is meant to be compatible with CM-64.
You might be surprised how often you can find this option. Even much later modules like the Yamaha MU128 have a C/M Mode.
Sometimes they are "hidden", such as the Korg NS5R (NX5R).

In the end though, all of them are disappointing. Get a real LA module, or just use MUNT.

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2, Yucatan FX, BeepBlaster

Reply 5 of 17, by CrossBow777

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SuperDeadite wrote:
The SC-88 Pro has "MT-32 mode", don't have an original 88 though. The 88-Pro lists it as "C/M Mode" (Computer Music), and is mea […]
Show full quote

The SC-88 Pro has "MT-32 mode", don't have an original 88 though.
The 88-Pro lists it as "C/M Mode" (Computer Music), and is meant to be compatible with CM-64.
You might be surprised how often you can find this option. Even much later modules like the Yamaha MU128 have a C/M Mode.
Sometimes they are "hidden", such as the Korg NS5R (NX5R).

In the end though, all of them are disappointing. Get a real LA module, or just use MUNT.

Really cool! I was only aware of the MT-32 mode on the SC-55 but thought that was removed from future modules after that? I assume the issue with these mt-32 modes between the modules is basically the lack of being able to edit the effects properly as an actual LA Synth could and hence the reason these MT-32 modes still sound wrong?

g883j7-2.png
Midi Modules: MT-32 (OLD), MT-200, MT-300, MT-90S, MT-90U, SD-20

Reply 6 of 17, by tpowell.ca

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CrossBow777 wrote:
SuperDeadite wrote:
The SC-88 Pro has "MT-32 mode", don't have an original 88 though. The 88-Pro lists it as "C/M Mode" (Computer Music), and is mea […]
Show full quote

The SC-88 Pro has "MT-32 mode", don't have an original 88 though.
The 88-Pro lists it as "C/M Mode" (Computer Music), and is meant to be compatible with CM-64.
You might be surprised how often you can find this option. Even much later modules like the Yamaha MU128 have a C/M Mode.
Sometimes they are "hidden", such as the Korg NS5R (NX5R).

In the end though, all of them are disappointing. Get a real LA module, or just use MUNT.

Really cool! I was only aware of the MT-32 mode on the SC-55 but thought that was removed from future modules after that? I assume the issue with these mt-32 modes between the modules is basically the lack of being
able to edit the effects properly as an actual LA Synth could and hence the reason these MT-32 modes still sound wrong?

Correct. MT-32 mode on the SC-55 is basically equivalent to the CM-64 mode on later models minus a few extra effects, and none could be reprogrammed via system executive messages.
For this reason, their use is limited to games that use the default maps on the MT-32 such as Monkey Island.

  • Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, Orpheus, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB
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Reply 7 of 17, by MKT_Gundam

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tpowell.ca wrote:
CrossBow777 wrote:
SuperDeadite wrote:
The SC-88 Pro has "MT-32 mode", don't have an original 88 though. The 88-Pro lists it as "C/M Mode" (Computer Music), and is mea […]
Show full quote

The SC-88 Pro has "MT-32 mode", don't have an original 88 though.
The 88-Pro lists it as "C/M Mode" (Computer Music), and is meant to be compatible with CM-64.
You might be surprised how often you can find this option. Even much later modules like the Yamaha MU128 have a C/M Mode.
Sometimes they are "hidden", such as the Korg NS5R (NX5R).

In the end though, all of them are disappointing. Get a real LA module, or just use MUNT.

Really cool! I was only aware of the MT-32 mode on the SC-55 but thought that was removed from future modules after that? I assume the issue with these mt-32 modes between the modules is basically the lack of being
able to edit the effects properly as an actual LA Synth could and hence the reason these MT-32 modes still sound wrong?

Correct. MT-32 mode on the SC-55 is basically equivalent to the CM-64 mode on later models minus a few extra effects, and none could be reprogrammed via system executive messages.
For this reason, their use is limited to games that use the default maps on the MT-32 such as Monkey Island.

The AWESB32 mt-32 emulation has the same issue, only default maps, explained in Phills video.

Retro rig 1: Asus CUV4X, VIA c3 800, Voodoo Banshee (Diamond fusion) and SB32 ct3670.
Retro rig 2: Intel DX2 66, SB16 Ct1740 and Cirrus Logic VLB.

Reply 8 of 17, by Spikey

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MT-32 mode is part of Sound Canvas GS (bank 127 in all GM patches, in MT-32 original patch map order, and in the drumkit on channel 10 also), so it is available in the SC-55 map of every Roland GS supported device, right up to and including the SC-8820/50.

I think it sounds best on a SC-55, because the effects/sound changes with each module- so like how the SC-55 map sounds wrong (or not perfectly emulated) on later SC's, the MT-32 patches are likely to sound less correct also.

Note that in any of these MT-32 modes, aside from not being able to use custom instruments, none of these are a great alternative to the MT-32 anyway! Especially with MUNT emulation perfect these days. But for old gaming PC's it could be useful.

Reply 10 of 17, by CrossBow777

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Well I was using MUNT for the past couple of years, but decided to pick up an actual MT-32 about a month ago as I was able to snag one for about $70 shipped. Anyway, I can tell you that to my ears I can hear a definite difference between what I was listening to under MUNT and what it actually sound like from an MT-32. Willy Beamish especially is obvious and the first time I heard it through my MT-32 was pretty amazing! So MUNT is good no doubt, but like everything it is emulation and can't fully replace the real deal.

g883j7-2.png
Midi Modules: MT-32 (OLD), MT-200, MT-300, MT-90S, MT-90U, SD-20

Reply 11 of 17, by Spikey

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Not true, MUNT (the latest version) emulates the MT-32 almost perfectly, and for 99.9% of cases perfectly.

derSammler: Yamaha devices that have it have it as part of a Roland GS compatibility mode (in every case I can think of). Kawai I am not sure about, but I would imagine it is a similar situation.

Reply 12 of 17, by SuperDeadite

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Spikey wrote:

Not true, MUNT (the latest version) emulates the MT-32 almost perfectly, and for 99.9% of cases perfectly.

derSammler: Yamaha devices that have it have it as part of a Roland GS compatibility mode (in every case I can think of). Kawai I am not sure about, but I would imagine it is a similar situation.

The TG100 has CM mode, and it has zero GS support. The MU80 actually lists CM mode separately from GS (TG300B) mode as well.

And as previously stated, the Korg NS5R has it, but you have to manually set it up, no quick way to select it.

As for MUNT it has gotten quite good, but until it can accurately replace the CM-64, it's worthless for me needs. Though good enough for most people on this forum.

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2, Yucatan FX, BeepBlaster

Reply 13 of 17, by DX7_EP

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A few other GS-compatible modules (eg. Roland SC-50, Edirol SD-90) lack the MT-32 map, but these are usually the exception rather than the norm.

As for MUNT, I do find it periodically useful as well (particularly for those things that need a first-generation MT-32, or when travelling). Given the quality, I'd take that gladly over the MT-32 emulation maps on many modules. However, I concur that the lack of CM-64 support is a big hindrance, especially for those of us playing Japanese titles which actively utilise it.

CM-64, FB-01, SC-55ST, SC-8850, SD-20

Reply 14 of 17, by tpowell.ca

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I believe MUNT is also not limited to a 32khz sampling rate or the 14~15bit resolution of the hardware MT-32.

  • Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, Orpheus, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB
    Tesla: GA-6BXC, VIA C3 Ezra-T, 256MB, 120GB SATA, YMF744, GUSpnp, Quadro2
    Newton: K6XV3+/66, AMD K6-III+500, 256MB, 32GB SSD, AWE32, Voodoo3

Reply 15 of 17, by Spikey

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To go back to the OP's question, the SC-50 should be fine for most cases of GM. I prefer having the higher polyphony of a SC-55mkII, but nothing wrong with a SC-50.

I believe MUNT is also not limited to a 32khz sampling rate or the 14~15bit resolution of the hardware MT-32.

Yes, I share NRS's opinion that MUNT is actually superior in many ways to a physical MT-32. 32-bit depth, 96KHz sampling. Also the option for CM-32L emulation.

Reply 16 of 17, by derSammler

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Spikey wrote:

To go back to the OP's question, the SC-50 should be fine for most cases of GM. I prefer having the higher polyphony of a SC-55mkII, but nothing wrong with a SC-50.

As written, the SC-50 is based on the MK.II, so it has the same polyphony.