hello aquishix,
I also have v1.3 and 1.4 of these games but get the impression that v1.4 is fundamentally different preventing the use of MT-32 drivers from previous versions.
That said, I have the same version of the MT-32 as you (1.07) running off of an AWE32 (2760v3) with SoftMPU and haven't had any problems. The machine is the K6-III+ from my sig, but running at 200MHz with L1 and L2 disabled. I don't recall having to use any CPU slow-down programs.

I'd suggest you try using just the MPU-401 from a soundcard and SoftMPU as a test (with the IPC and HardMPU cards removed).
Also, are you 100% sure the game isn't corrupted in some way?
A 386 with its cache disabled and turbo off (8MHz ?) should be slow enough to not trig a buffer overflow...ever.

maybe mt-32 support was removed from 1.4 because it never was working?
I have not checked 1.3 will do and report back

tpowell.ca wrote:

hello aquishix,
I also have v1.3 and 1.4 of these games but get the impression that v1.4 is fundamentally different preventing the use of MT-32 drivers from previous versions.

I agree. The level design, judging from the first level, was _heavily_ modified from v1.3 to v1.4. Pretty much violates the notion of a minor revision IMO. I don't even think game designers should do that kind of thing in general, but if they do, it should be called "Special Edition" or something. Merely changing the version # from 1.3 to 1.4 is deceptive. The only reason I tried v1.4 at all is that some website claimed that it had better support for more modern CPUs. I figured that could be the culprit -- as in, perhaps even my 386DX40 was too "modern" for PoP v1.3.

tpowell.ca wrote:

That said, I have the same version of the MT-32 as you (1.07) running off of an AWE32 (2760v3) with SoftMPU and haven't had any problems. The machine is the K6-III+ from my sig, but running at 200MHz with L1 and L2 disabled. I don't recall having to use any CPU slow-down programs.

This is very close to the next thing I was going to try if I didn't get any other suggestions from this thread. The reason I don't want to do it is that I'll have to physically remove the MIF-IPC-B from the 486, and then change the PnP settings on the CT2890, run SoftMPU, and attach a different cable to the MT-32...all a giant pain in the ass just to get 1 damned game to work correctly. This kind of stuff drives me absolutely nuts, which is why I built 3 separate machines in the first place! =)

tpowell.ca wrote:

I'd suggest you try using just the MPU-401 from a soundcard and SoftMPU as a test (with the IPC and HardMPU cards removed).

See: above. 😉

As far as I can tell, you can't use an MPU-401 with a sound card because it takes DB-25 from the interface card, not DA-15. Even the MIDI IN port on the MPU-401 would just send information back through the DB-25 to the interface card.

I'll just assume that you meant what I laid out; I.e., sound card --> DA-15 --> DIN-5 --> MT-32.

tpowell.ca wrote:

Also, are you 100% sure the game isn't corrupted in some way?

No, but damned near 100% sure. The game works perfectly with Adlib, Sound Blaster, and PC Speaker options. The MT-32 *sound effects* work perfectly while using Adlib for the sound track as well! It seems like it's just the damned loading of the instruments via SysEx when the game first loads that makes everything screw up. It's like Broderbund(Mechner himself?) got their hands on a gen 2 MT-32 and then programmed v1.3 against THAT, because I fail to see how ANYTHING would make this work natively with a gen 1 MT-32. This is literally the only game in my library that has MT-32 support that is giving me any problems at this point. Kings Quest IV is several years older than Prince of Persia v1.3 and it works *perfectly* with my MT-32 no matter how I run it. Other games have speed issues but those are all easy to deal with now that I know how.

tpowell.ca wrote:

A 386 with its cache disabled and turbo off (8MHz ?) should be slow enough to not trig a buffer overflow...ever.

Exactly. It makes no sense. I can even see with my own eyes that the SysEx messages are making their way into the MT-32 far more slowly when I do that because of the green LED's blinking rate on the front panel. So strange.

Naturally, there are zero gen 2 MT-32s for sale on eBay or Yahoo! Japan Auctions. It's almost like every enthusiast in the entire world knows about this and preferentially owns the gen 2 ones...😉

keropi wrote:

maybe mt-32 support was removed from 1.4 because it never was working?
I have not checked 1.3 will do and report back

Thank you!

I kinda wondered if that's why they removed it. But the fact that I got it to *almost* work correctly with the HardMPU strongly suggests that it does work, but that it just needs a lot more effort put into it to get it to work *perfectly*. I can see into my future and I can tell that I'm just going to have to occupy the 4th port on my MIDI switch with a DA15 --> DIN-5 cable that will permanently go into my CT2890, and then use the GUS in my 486 for the gameport on that machine. It's a pain, but it's doable. All of this for one game... =(

I'm also seriously considering picking up an MT-100 just to be able to play this one game...because it has the PCB from a gen 2 MT-32 inside, from what I've read. But I still want to get those cute LCD read-out messages on the front panel of the MT-32, so I'd have to add the MT-100 to the MIDI THRU daisy chain instead of replacing the MT-32 with it.

Atteched is a midi file I captured on my K6-III+ from the game itself (using the Roland SoundBrush SB-55) for the SysEx messages ONLY.
Now if you want to see a finicky box, the SB-55 has no equal. I had to run my K6-III+ with a CPU slowdown program that basically made it equivalent to an XT, and even then it sometimes gave bufferoverflow errors.

As a test, before loading the game, power cycle the MT-32, then play this file, then disconnect the MT-32 from your PC (but keep it powered obviously), load the game and once in the menu, reconnect the MT-32.
See if the game then plays normally.

tpowell.ca wrote:

Atteched is a midi file I captured on my K6-III+ from the game itself (using the Roland SoundBrush SB-55) for the SysEx messages […]
Show full quote

Atteched is a midi file I captured on my K6-III+ from the game itself (using the Roland SoundBrush SB-55) for the SysEx messages ONLY.
Now if you want to see a finicky box, the SB-55 has no equal. I had to run my K6-III+ with a CPU slowdown program that basically made it equivalent to an XT, and even then it sometimes gave bufferoverflow errors.

As a test, before loading the game, you could play this file, then disconnect the MT-32 from your PC, load the game and once in the menu, reconnect the MT-32.
See if the game then plays normally.

Fantastic. I will try this when I get home from work today.

Thanks!

I just made a recording, the game doesn't have ground-breaking MT-32 music but it sounds OK to me: link on post down below

Test system is a 386sx33 with 16kb of cache (enabled) , music quest mpu and EGA graphics. Did not get the dreaded buffer overflow error on the mt-32.

keropi wrote:

I just made a recording, the game doesn't have ground-breaking MT-32 music but it sounds OK to me: ((link deleted))

Test system is a 386sx33 with 16kb of cache (enabled) , music quest mpu and EGA graphics. Did not get the dreaded buffer overflow error on the mt-32.

Thanks again for bothering to do this. Indeed, this is what it's supposed to sound like. Sounds perfect.

What the Hell...

What possible difference could it make using a Music Quest MPU instead of a MIF-IPC-B? Do you have a MIF-IPC-B to try it with?

What version of the MT-32 did you record this with? Gen 1 or Gen 2?

I have an gen 1 MT-32 and it seems to work just fine with DOSBox on ver 1.3 of Prince of Persia. I've never played more than maybe 10 - 20 min of it, but all the music played through the intro without issue and the sounds were there the entire time I was playing it.

And yes, the first few instruments on POP sound off on the mt-32 until the Sitar like instrument kicks in. Now my MT-32 has the original roms on it still so maybe the firmware update your sporting has something to do with it?

BTW...from a game play only perspective, is there any benefit to using the 1.07 roms on an mt-32?

CrossBow777 wrote:

I have an gen 1 MT-32 and it seems to work just fine with DOSBox on ver 1.3 of Prince of Persia. I've never played more than maybe 10 - 20 min of it, but all the music played through the intro without issue and the sounds were there the entire time I was playing it.

And yes, the first few instruments on POP sound off on the mt-32 until the Sitar like instrument kicks in. Now my MT-32 has the original roms on it still so maybe the firmware update your sporting has something to do with it?

BTW...from a game play only perspective, is there any benefit to using the 1.07 roms on an mt-32?

It's not that surprising that it works correctly with DOSBox because there are so many bugfixes that go into DOSBox to get things to work correctly. Who knows why, in this case? Maybe someone on VOGONS, actually. 😉

re: first few notes -- I'll upload a recording when I get home so you can hear what I mean. When the Prince of Persia intro music plays correctly, the first few notes DO sound bad. As keropi said, it's not a great MT-32 sound track implementation. On the other hand, what I've experienced is *clearly* incorrect garbage. It's because the instruments are not getting set correctly and/or it's overloading the MT-32 itself.

Whether or not you update the firmware is a matter of taste. The v1.07 firmware corrected several bugs, but some games exploited those bugs. On the flip side, some games after v1.07 will not sound correct on v1.0 firmware, supposedly. I've never delved into the details because I just flat refuse to keep different MT-32s around with different firmware versions just to get a few notes to play correctly on a few specific games.

keropi wrote:

I just made a recording, the game doesn't have ground-breaking MT-32 music but it sounds OK to me: http://www.mediafire.com/file/s7yie0g6sf05anh … p13-mt32-mq.mp3

Really? I thought it had some of the better MT-32 music I've heard on PC.
Other than Monkey Island, Sierra games and Dune 2 (although the Adlib version is also great), what else has better music on PC for the MT-32?

Works pretty good with munt

https://youtu.be/nlbAO3qQWk0 (sorry for my lame skills)

tpowell.ca wrote:

keropi wrote:

I just made a recording, the game doesn't have ground-breaking MT-32 music but it sounds OK to me: ((link deleted))

Really? I thought it had some of the better MT-32 music I've heard on PC.
Other than Monkey Island, Sierra games and Dune 2 (although the Adlib version is also great), what else has better music on PC for the MT-32?

I can throw in my 2¢ here. You kinda threw an unfair curve ball by excluding Sierra games, since those constituted the bulk of good PC games of the era in which the MT-32 was dominant at the top end.

* Abuse comes to mind. That sound track is great.

* Does Rise of the Dragon count? It's a Dynamix game and clearly somewhat adult-oriented. Technically made by a subsidiary of Sierra, but not really one of the "Sierra games" as people think of them.

* Day of the Tentacle.

* Flashback. This one is a bit of a toss-up because the Adlib soundtrack is so exceptionally amazing.

* Kyrandia games. Same comment applies.

* The Lost Vikings; debatable.

* Master of Orion

* Alien Breed might be a candidate. Hard to judge from youtube and I haven't installed that game on any of my systems yet to do a comparison.

* Star Control 1.

I'm sure there are plenty of others, but hopefully what I've laid out makes the case.

KainXVIII wrote:

Works pretty good with munt

https://youtu.be/nlbAO3qQWk0 (sorry for my lame skills)

Thanks. I'll consider this a last resort if I can't reasonably rig it up some other way. =)

aquishix wrote:

I can throw in my 2¢ here. You kinda threw an unfair curve ball by excluding Sierra games, since those constituted the bulk of […]
Show full quote

tpowell.ca wrote:

keropi wrote:

I just made a recording, the game doesn't have ground-breaking MT-32 music but it sounds OK to me: http://www.mediafire.com/file/s7yie0g6sf05anh … p13-mt32-mq.mp3

Really? I thought it had some of the better MT-32 music I've heard on PC.
Other than Monkey Island, Sierra games and Dune 2 (although the Adlib version is also great), what else has better music on PC for the MT-32?

I can throw in my 2¢ here. You kinda threw an unfair curve ball by excluding Sierra games, since those constituted the bulk of good PC games of the era in which the MT-32 was dominant at the top end.

* Abuse comes to mind. That sound track is great.
* Does Rise of the Dragon count? It's a Dynamix game and clearly somewhat adult-oriented. Technically made by a subsidiary of Sierra, but not really one of the "Sierra games" as people think of them.
* Day of the Tentacle.
* Flashback. This one is a bit of a toss-up because the Adlib soundtrack is so exceptionally amazing.
* Kyrandia games. Same comment applies.
* The Lost Vikings; debatable.
* Master of Orion
* Alien Breed might be a candidate. Hard to judge from youtube and I haven't installed that game on any of my systems yet to do a comparison.
* Star Control 1.

I'm sure there are plenty of others, but hopefully what I've laid out makes the case.

You got me. I haven't played those games.
😢
...yet. But I'll definitely check them out. Except for DOTT. I should have added Lucasarts to my exclusion list. :p

tpowell.ca wrote:

You got me. I haven't played those games.
😢
...yet. But I'll definitely check them out. Except for DOTT. I should have added Lucasarts to my exclusion list. :p

🤣. "Except for all the games with awesome MT-32 sound tracks, what games have awesome MT-32 sound tracks?!?!?!"

keropi wrote:

I just made a recording, the game doesn't have ground-breaking MT-32 music but it sounds OK to me: ((link deleted))

Test system is a 386sx33 with 16kb of cache (enabled) , music quest mpu and EGA graphics. Did not get the dreaded buffer overflow error on the mt-32.

Also...quite unfortunately...

Looks like mediafire.com can't be trusted (anymore?). When I clicked on that link it didn't download the mp3 but presented a green download button. When I clicked on that, the legitimate .mp3 file did download, but it also opened a malware tab on my browser that kicked off a security alert at IBM (where I work) and they contacted me about it. I would advise you not to use mediafire.com anymore. =(

(And you should delete that link from this thread so no one else clicks on it.)

tpowell.ca wrote:

keropi wrote:

I just made a recording, the game doesn't have ground-breaking MT-32 music but it sounds OK to me: http://www.mediafire.com/file/s7yie0g6sf05anh … p13-mt32-mq.mp3

Really? I thought it had some of the better MT-32 music I've heard on PC.
Other than Monkey Island, Sierra games and Dune 2 (although the Adlib version is also great), what else has better music on PC for the MT-32?

Many Orgin games had great MT32 sound tracks, Ultima 7 is one of my favorites.

I have uploaded the mp3 on tinyupload: http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id= … 248816631417444

I haven't noticed malware on mediafire or had any complaints before - then again I do use an adblocker on chrome so even if there was a pop-up it did not open.
Also I don't have an old-style Roland mpu, all I have atm is 401AT/SCC-1/LAPC-I