VOGONS


First post, by F2bnp

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Hello everyone! I recently grabbed one of those VIA C3 Nehemiah CPUs for the first time and I was pleasantly surprised to find that it does everything my K6-III+ 550 system did and then some. So, with that in mind, I set out to build a system around it that would replace my K6-III+. Here are the specs:

Via C3 1200 (Nehemiah, 9x133), usually running at 15x100=1500MHz
256MB CL2 RAM
Soyo SY-6BA+ IV
3Dfx Voodoo5 5500 AGP
Aureal Vortex 2 + XR385
RTL8169 Network card
SoundBlaster 16 ISA (CT2940)
Seagate 40GB IDE
Optical Drive
Chieftec GPS-350EB-101A

There's a reason I listed all the specs though, you might have noticed that I went with two soundcards. The reason for this is that I considered using the pros of both cards to bring the best of both worlds. First off, an ISA card is mandatory, since I want to have great compatibility with DOS Games and this specific SB16 has a real OPL3 on board instead of CQM which I really dig. The Vortex 2 on the other hand I can use for DirectSound3D and A3D in Windows, but I thought I could also use it under DOS for its wavetable header.
So, the idea goes like this:

SB16 ----> Sound Effects + OPL3
Vortex2 ------> XR385 (Yamaha DB60XG)

I'm currently using a mini jack to mini jack cable from the SB16's Line Out to the Vortex 2's Line In. I've got most conflicts sorted out like this:

SB16:
Address = 220
IRQ = 7
DMA = 1
HDMA = 5
MIDI OUT= 300 ( I don't need it)
Adlib = 388

Vortex 2:
Address = 240
IRQ = 10
DMA = 0
MIDI OUT = 330
Adlib = 388 (this is a problem)

I initially had some issues with the ATA66 HighPoint controller on the motherboard, but I managed to sort the conflicts and it works pretty well for the most part! I can select the Yamaha DB60XG at Port 330 and I can use the Sound Effects from the SB16. Adlib is an issue though, since it usually tries to use the Vortex 2 and it sounds pretty bad. And that's my first problem, I can't disable the Vortex 2's OPL2/OPL3 capabilities.
There is a way to get around this by disabling SoundBlaster Pro Emulation from the Vortex2 on the Device Manager and this works fine for Windows.
DOS is another story though, since the Vortex2's DOS driver depends on that emulation being enabled on the Windows side in order to operate AFAIK. So, if I disable it, I get no MPU-401 and I also have to switch the speaker mini-jack from the Vortex2 to the SB16.

The other issue that I have is that the audio levels are completely off under DOS. Under Windows I can easily tweak them to my liking so as not to have any noise but also have everything perfectly audible.
Under DOS however, the Vortex 2 is nice and loud and the SB16 is just barely audible if I use the Line Out and not the Speaker Out, which is something I have to do to keep noise at a minimum. I've also made sure to use Creative's mixerset utility, but it's still too quiet.
The only possible solution to this that I've seen is this awesome little utility by ZanQuance, but I don't see a Line In option in there, unless I'm missing something.

Has anybody done anything similar in the past? How did you go about it? Any help is appreciated.
If I end up getting too frustrated, I might just remove the Vortex 2 altogether and maybe even replacing that SB16 with my trusty AWE32 😁.

Reply 1 of 16, by oohms

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You could consider putting the XR385 on one of these and connecting the audio out to the line input of your SB16
https://www.serdashop.com/CHiLLandPhilAdapter

DOS/w3.11/w98 | K6-III+ 400ATZ @ 550 | FIC PA2013 | 128mb SDram | Voodoo 3 3000 | Avancelogic ALS100 | Roland SC-55ST
DOS/w98/XP | Core 2 Duo E4600 | Asus P5PE-VM | 512mb DDR400 | Ti4800SE | ForteMedia FM801

Reply 2 of 16, by badmojo

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I assume that AU30MIX has an option for line-in but it might not be an obvious identifier - e.g. Wavetable is controlled by 'video' from memory.

What about swapping it around and send the Vortex into the SB16's line-in, then you can use the SB16's mixer to make it all OK?

I use a little passive Rolls branded external mixer so don't have these headaches anymore 😎

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 3 of 16, by F2bnp

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oohms wrote:

You could consider putting the XR385 on one of these and connecting the audio out to the line input of your SB16
https://www.serdashop.com/CHiLLandPhilAdapter

This is a cool idea, but I'm trying to avoid spending even more money on stuff I don't really need. 🤣

badmojo wrote:

I assume that AU30MIX has an option for line-in but it might not be an obvious identifier - e.g. Wavetable is controlled by 'video' from memory.

What about swapping it around and send the Vortex into the SB16's line-in, then you can use the SB16's mixer to make it all OK?

I use a little passive Rolls branded external mixer so don't have these headaches anymore 😎

I'll look into AU30MIX more then.
I thought about making the SB16 the "primary" card, but that would also mean that I'd have to do that under Windows as well. And if I do that under Windows, I don't think I'll be getting any DirectSound3D or A3D acceleration, since Windows will be using that SB16 as its primary card. At least, I think that's the way it goes, am I missing something?

Reply 4 of 16, by badmojo

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F2bnp wrote:

I think that's the way it goes, am I missing something?

No you're probably right, I didn't think of that. You could PM ZanQuance and see if he has any ideas - I think he's still active here from time-to-time.

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 6 of 16, by PARUS

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F2bnp, why do you think that you'll lose A3D effects if connecting will be vortex->sb16? You can choose any "primary" sound card in Windows and connect them any way. A "mixer" card shouldn't be always "primary", it is foolishness. Just set mixer levels on sb16 and set vortex as "primary". That's all.

Reply 7 of 16, by F2bnp

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Well, I just tried it out of curiosity and it didn't work. I made the SB16 the primary card, went in the back and swapped the cables around and the A3D demos hang the system because they presumably can't communicate with the Vortex 2.

I could be swapping both cards around, but it is kind of a hassle and going around to the back of the case to swap the cables is a pain. If I had an amplifier hooked up to these cards then it wouldn't matter, but as it is I only have a couple of mediocre speakers hooked up directly to the sound cards.

I'll probably be removing the Vortex 2 in all honesty and just go with a single sound card, it's probably best to hook that Vortex 2 in another system.

Reply 10 of 16, by ZanQuance

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Hello everyone 😀

Because the Vortex 2 TSR reads the initial settings every IRQ of the card, this fix has to be made to the TSR itself.
Use this patched version and it shouldn't respond to any Adlib port r/w.

[edit] Also I don't have any recording mixer settings implemented in that mixer utility sorry. Any recording depends on the VDB routing the codec inputs to the mixer and then out to their destinations.

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Reply 12 of 16, by PARUS

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Yes, I see.

F2bnp wrote:

I've also made sure to use Creative's mixerset utility, but it's still too quiet.

OK, if you have free PCI slot you can plug SB Live (disable SB16 emulation in Windows) and try EKM mixer in DOS. Or go with external mixer.

Reply 13 of 16, by F2bnp

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So, are you telling me that I should plug a third sound card in the system? That sounds like I'd be inviting even more trouble my way 🤣 .
An external mixer would be the way to go I guess, but I'm trying to avoid that as well.

I'll have some more free time later in the week, I'll see if I can somehow get the volume levels to where I want them to be.

Reply 15 of 16, by gdjacobs

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ZanQuance wrote:
Hello everyone :) […]
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Hello everyone 😀

Because the Vortex 2 TSR reads the initial settings every IRQ of the card, this fix has to be made to the TSR itself.
Use this patched version and it shouldn't respond to any Adlib port r/w.

[edit] Also I don't have any recording mixer settings implemented in that mixer utility sorry. Any recording depends on the VDB routing the codec inputs to the mixer and then out to their destinations.

Sir, I bow to you. Truly you are a master.

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All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 16 of 16, by badmojo

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gdjacobs wrote:

Sir, I bow to you. Truly you are a master.

+1

And regarding the use of an external mixer - I'm all for it but it wouldn't fix the issue with the levels being correct in Windows and wrong in DOS, so you'd still be adjusting it every time you switched b/w the 2, and forgetting to turn down SB16 in Windows and getting a fright when you loaded DOOM @ 100dB would get old fast 🤣

Life? Don't talk to me about life.