AWE64 Gold change

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby canthearu » 2019-5-13 @ 07:41

Oh, in that case, he needs to setup his hardware correctly:

Address = 0x220
IRQ = 5 (or 7, but 5 is pretty damn standard)
DMA = 1 low, 5 high
MPU = 0x330
FM = 0x388
AWE32 = 0x630 (I think)

Any other configuration is going to give more trouble. Dedicated retro gaming rigs should never have any problems having these resources avaliable (unless of course you are doing a multi-card setup) Setting IRQ to greater than 7 should definitely be avoided.
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby dionb » 2019-5-13 @ 08:41

IRQ 5 was used for HDD controller on XTs, so was not available to sound, which is why really early SB games default to IRQ 7.
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby PARUS » 2019-5-13 @ 09:28

Oh God! You really don't understand or you mock...

You can set any resources combination but if you go with AWE card you'll not get 8 bit digital sounds in PoP and in some other old games.
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby Hevy » 2019-5-13 @ 10:48

Thanks for all your responses and help.

So, the SB pro YMF724 is perfect and works great on POP.

There is a very strange thing that is happening.
After i initialize the card in DOS, i am given ADD=220, IRQ=5, DMA=1 etc. and i can play all games fine.
But when i try play DOOM or DOOM 2 it crashes when i set environment to same as above. (Through Windows is fine)

The only time it works, is if i set IRQ=10 and then run "DSDMA" emulation.
Its almost like it runs emulation from SBpro to SB16


Also, ive tried running both cards together with no luck.
Do i need to initialize both cards in DOS? Is there a sequence?
Which card should i run primary? AWE64 or YMF724?
Will the secondary still run if primary card isn't initialized?
Can i run Doom with AWE64 music and YMF724 effects ?

Thanks very much in advance. Heres the system...
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby NewRisingSun » 2019-5-13 @ 11:05

PARUS wrote:Why can't you all see it, why write a same absurdity about FM, MT-32, version 1.3? Foolishness.
The only absurd fool is you, who is too foolish to understand that my comment about version 1.3 was a response to badmojo, not to you or Hevy, even though I correctly addressed it by putting his name in the quote tag. :angry:
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby dionb » 2019-5-13 @ 11:17

PARUS wrote:Oh God! You really don't understand or you mock...

You can set any resources combination but if you go with AWE card you'll not get 8 bit digital sounds in PoP and in some other old games.

No, we're just going offtopic. It's clear enough about the 8b digital audio bit, didn't think that was even a discussion anymore.

Hevy wrote:Thanks for all your responses and help.

So, the SB pro YMF724 is perfect and works great on POP.

There is a very strange thing that is happening.
After i initialize the card in DOS, i am given ADD=220, IRQ=5, DMA=1 etc. and i can play all games fine.
But when i try play DOOM or DOOM 2 it crashes when i set environment to same as above. (Through Windows is fine)

The only time it works, is if i set IRQ=10 and then run "DSDMA" emulation.
Its almost like it runs emulation from SBpro to SB16

This was already answered - 8b digital audio needs an 8b IRQ, so <=7
Also, ive tried running both cards together with no luck.
Do i need to initialize both cards in DOS? Is there a sequence?
Which card should i run primary? AWE64 or YMF724?
Will the secondary still run if primary card isn't initialized?

There is no such thing as "primary" and "secondary". You can have as many cards initialized as resources allow, when you configure the game you decide which resources - and so which card - it should use.
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby Hevy » 2019-5-13 @ 11:25

This was already answered - 8b digital audio needs an 8b IRQ, so <=7


What about DOOM ?
It crashes on 1, 5 and even 7. As i said it only works when i go to irq=10 and then run "dsdma" legacy emulation.
Is there a conflict?

There is no such thing as "primary" and "secondary". You can have as many cards initialized as resources allow, when you configure the game you decide which resources - and so which card - it should use.

Which card should i "In" and "out"?
Does it matter?
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby badmojo » 2019-5-13 @ 12:10

NewRisingSun wrote:The only absurd fool is you, who is too foolish to understand that my comment about version 1.3 was a response to badmojo, not to you or Hevy, even though I correctly addressed it by putting his name in the quote tag. :angry:


Yes and thankyou for that information, I didn't know that.

@PARUS, take a deep breath over there dude.
If it's broke, then fix it!
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby dionb » 2019-5-13 @ 12:22

Hevy wrote:
This was already answered - 8b digital audio needs an 8b IRQ, so <=7


What about DOOM ?
It crashes on 1, 5 and even 7. As i said it only works when i go to irq=10 and then run "dsdma" legacy emulation.

Is there a conflict?

No, that's as designed: the PCI card itself resides at IRQ10, then uses the emulation to emulate an ISA card at 220/5/1 (or wherever else you set it)
Which card should i "In" and "out"?
Does it matter?

Sorry, don't understand what you are referring to with "in" and "out". Both cards can be in their respective slots at the same time.
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby Hevy » 2019-5-13 @ 12:35

No, that's as designed: the PCI card itself resides at IRQ10, then uses the emulation to emulate an ISA card at 220/5/1 (or wherever else you set it)


But,
When I initialise the card at IRQ=5 without emulation, I can get for example, POP and other games to work.
And I know it’s working, because if the card is initialised also without emulation at say IRQ=10, it plays sound different. FM or whatever it is.

So, IRQ=5 is working without emulation. Why does Doom need me to run emulation and POP for example doesnt?
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby PARUS » 2019-5-13 @ 15:02

Hevy, try to replace DOS4GW to DOS32A extender in DOOM directory and return 220/7/1 settings. Maybe this will help. This DOOM issue is wellknown, it manifests with PCI YMF in pure DOS.
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby Hevy » 2019-5-13 @ 21:40

PARUS wrote:Hevy, try to replace DOS4GW to DOS32A extender in DOOM directory and return 220/7/1 settings. Maybe this will help. This DOOM issue is wellknown, it manifests with PCI YMF in pure DOS.


Will try this if I can work it out.
Thanks for your help.

This sound card is great.
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby PARUS » 2019-5-14 @ 06:27

Hevy wrote:Do i need to initialize both cards in DOS?

:) Only you know answer. As you wish.
Hevy wrote: Is there a sequence?
Which card should i run primary? AWE64 or YMF724?

Usually no. But sometimes it matters. For example AWE+GUS, it is strongly recommended to init first GUS GF1 card, then PnP SB card. I don't know why but if you init first SB then GUS sometimes GUS can't "take" other IO address. What about YMF+AWE I don't know, I never tried them simultaneousely. Try it. AND: there is no any "primary", "secondary" :)
Hevy wrote:Can i run Doom with AWE64 music and YMF724 effects ?

I think yes. But I don't understand why. DOOM runs perfectly on AWE in pure DOS and Windows DOS session. And DOOM runs perfectly on YMF724 with YAMAHA General MIDI music (!!!) in Windows DOS session.

Hevy wrote:This sound card is great.

Yes! It has pretty clear analog output, great SB Pro compatibility, digital output which works in pure DOS also with RayeR's mod, perfect FM synth (DOS+WIN), and awesome GM+XG synthesizer (WIN only). Yes, when you have not ISA bus. When you have ISA bus look for good SB Pro clones with 100% compatibility. And you can leave YMF724 for GM/XG MIDI Windows usage.
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby firage » 2019-5-15 @ 14:26

PARUS wrote:Oh God! You really don't understand or you mock...

You can set any resources combination but if you go with AWE card you'll not get 8 bit digital sounds in PoP and in some other old games.

I'm obviously not going to claim this is bullshit without thoroughly checking for myself first, but such a significant failing in backwards compatibility sure isn't commonly known about the SB16(/AWE) type cards. I don't find references to any such clear cut issue; conversely there's tons to say PoP certainly does produce digital sound effects on properly configured systems (even if to an unconfirmed degree).
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby dr_st » 2019-5-21 @ 08:06

I tested the games brought up here - Prince of Persia and Mortal Kombat - with AWE64 and with Audician 32 (SBPro clone). The system is K6XV3+/66 with K6-2 @500MHz.

Prince of Persia
AWE64: Version 1.0 can't detect the audio card at all - no sound, no music, only PC speaker. Version 1.3+ plays music and digital audio with no issues.
Audician 32: Everything works on all versions.

So early versions of PoP did have problems with SB16, apparently, and these were eventually fixed.

Mortal Kombat
AWE64: I get random lockups when digital audio plays. I don't remember getting these in the past. Maybe my AWE64 is going bad, or my motherboard.
Audician 32: No lockups, but at some point a lot of digital audio stops playing until game is restarted. I remember these kind of issues with SB16/AWE64 as well.

So the MK audio engine must have problems with anything over SB (incl. SBPro), or maybe the Audician's SBPro emulation is not accurate enough.
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby firage » 2019-5-21 @ 14:56

Thanks for providing some reliable results.

Great Hierophant has written an article on v1.0: http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/201 ... -card.html
No mention of automatic detection issues with the AWE64, but some interesting information regarding the game's detection in general. It can be overridden using the command line parameter "sblast". I'd try that first thing.
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby PARUS » 2019-5-23 @ 13:07

dr_st wrote:Prince of Persia
AWE64: Version 1.3+ plays music and digital audio with no issues.

No! AWE64 plays all game sounds via FM. If you can't know the difference between 8-bit digit sound and FM sound please don't mislead people.

Today I'm not lazy, built a system with AWE64 and checked it again. PoP 1.3. 8-bit digital sounds are absent. FM plays all sounds instead of them. When I replace AWE64 to SB Pro clone all 8-bit digital sounds are present.
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby dr_st » 2019-5-23 @ 17:03

PARUS wrote:
dr_st wrote:Prince of Persia
AWE64: Version 1.3+ plays music and digital audio with no issues.

No! AWE64 plays all game sounds via FM. If you can't know the difference between 8-bit digit sound and FM sound please don't mislead people.
I'm not sure at this point who's misleading who.

I accept that I might be wrong, however I can tell you that the digital sounds in PoP 1.3+ sound exactly the same on my computer whether using AWE64 or the Audician 32. And for that matter, when I run the game in DOSBox using all possible types of SB emulation, it all sounds the same. So either it is all FM, or all digital (to me it sounds like the latter, but again, I may be wrong).

If you are not lazy, please upload some audio samples to show the difference, or maybe you can even find some existing recordings (like Youtube videos) to demonstrate it.
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby lvader » 2019-5-23 @ 21:35

I find it strange that POP is such a popular game and the sound issues are quite well documented, but I’ve not read anything to backup Parus claims. I’d run the test myself but my stuff is in storage while I relocate, but since FM is disabled in my AWE 64 it would be a simple test.
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Re: AWE64 Gold change

Postby SirNickity » 2019-5-24 @ 00:59

I have never Princed in Persia before, but as a possible explanation, I do have trouble running Hocus Pocus on an AWE card because it doesn't understand "T6" in the SET BLASTER env. My solution was a batch file, hocus.bat:

Code: Select all
@ECHO OFF
SET SB=%BLASTER%
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
HOCUS.EXE
SET BLASTER=%SB%


Maybe it's something like that? I can't imagine why an SB16/AWE would fail to play audio from an SB driver. And Parus, if you start throwing insults at me, I swear I will squirt you with the spray bottle.
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