Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby keropi » 2019-7-29 @ 09:48

the mt-32 and similar computer products do support sample upload and can use custom sounds - several games do that... maybe there is some internal ram in some custom ic
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby Tiido » 2019-7-29 @ 09:54

The custom sounds are new instruments (ADSR, filter and modulation settings) not new actual sounds (new attack samples and whatever else) that don't exist in the 512 or 1MB ROM bank. It is like on FM, you have one fixed sample (sine) that all the sounds have to use, but you can still create huge amount of sounds out of that one sample by adjusting the synthesis parameters.
EDIT: I just checked MT32 etc. sysex stuff and you can only do synthesis parameter uploads/changes, you cannot do actual samples (the LA32 chip has no sample RAM, only ROM and it lacks any sort of internal sample storage).
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby appiah4 » 2019-7-29 @ 10:21

Scali wrote:
appiah4 wrote:And this mode can be enabled by SOFTMPU /MT32 ?


I haven't tested it with an X2, but looking at the documentation, if you load that MT-32 compatible sound bank, it seems that the commands will be the same as on the S2, so I expect it to work.


Right, so using the file provided above I can do MT32.BAT then SOFTMPU /MT32 and we are go. This should also work with X3M I suppose, as they are roughly the same thing. Interesting. This also makes the X3M a very versatile module for GM/GS and MT-32 Emulation..
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby keropi » 2019-7-29 @ 11:35

Tiido wrote:The custom sounds are new instruments (ADSR, filter and modulation settings) not new actual sounds (new attack samples and whatever else) that don't exist in the 512 or 1MB ROM bank. It is like on FM, you have one fixed sample (sine) that all the sounds have to use, but you can still create huge amount of sounds out of that one sample by adjusting the synthesis parameters.
EDIT: I just checked MT32 etc. sysex stuff and you can only do synthesis parameter uploads/changes, you cannot do actual samples (the LA32 chip has no sample RAM, only ROM and it lacks any sort of internal sample storage).


well then, it's a very impressive feature since you do get completely different sounds... I wonder what tools they used to create them
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby Scali » 2019-7-29 @ 11:56

appiah4 wrote:Right, so using the file provided above I can do MT32.BAT then SOFTMPU /MT32 and we are go. This should also work with X3M I suppose, as they are roughly the same thing. Interesting. This also makes the X3M a very versatile module for GM/GS and MT-32 Emulation..


I don't think you need the MT32.BAT file.
At least, you don't need it for the S2. SoftMPU sends all the required commands when you use the /MT32 flag.
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby appiah4 » 2019-7-29 @ 12:14

Scali wrote:
appiah4 wrote:Right, so using the file provided above I can do MT32.BAT then SOFTMPU /MT32 and we are go. This should also work with X3M I suppose, as they are roughly the same thing. Interesting. This also makes the X3M a very versatile module for GM/GS and MT-32 Emulation..


I don't think you need the MT32.BAT file.
At least, you don't need it for the S2. SoftMPU sends all the required commands when you use the /MT32 flag.


That's even better.. I will test my X3MA via DOSBOX using the new Dream soundbank tonight and report. I'll also make some recordings of the X3MA doing MT-32 emulation for compatible games.
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby Srandista » 2019-7-29 @ 12:38

appiah4 wrote:I will test my X3MA via DOSBOX using the new Dream soundbank tonight and report. I'll also make some recordings of the X3MA doing MT-32 emulation for compatible games.

Looking forward to it! I will try that with my X2 afterwards.
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby ahtoh » 2019-7-29 @ 14:30

Please record monkey island 1, Indiana Jones atlantis, and KGB.
I want to compare with my results.

I also have a tbs-2000 sound card that can emulate mt-32, I wonder which one sounds better
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby appiah4 » 2019-7-29 @ 21:11

Well.. I couldn't get SoftMPU S2P version to run under DOSBOX for whatever reason, so resorting to the DOSMIDI/SYSEX Batch files shared earlier in this thread I managed to get Monkey Island to play on my X3MA in MT-32 mode: https://soundcloud.com/user-470084971/m ... land-intro

Less success with Indy 4 and Space Quest 3 - wrong instruments in many parts. I will give this another try in a real PC sometime, though. Maybe SOFTMPU /MT32 will give me better results than the BAT files. Regardless, it's not a straightforward or reliable method from what I've experienced so far, so I will continue to use a raspberry for MUNT in series with the X3M.
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby Falcosoft » 2019-7-29 @ 22:23

appiah4 wrote:...
Less success with Indy 4 and Space Quest 3 - wrong instruments in many parts. I will give this another try in a real PC sometime, though. Maybe SOFTMPU /MT32 will give me better results than the BAT files. Regardless, it's not a straightforward or reliable method from what I've experienced so far, so I will continue to use a raspberry for MUNT in series with the X3M.


There is no chance that using SOFTMPU /MT32 gives you better results. Instead you should test with games that do not use custom instruments. Space Quest 3 is definitely not one of them.
Here's a list of games that you could try:

Leisure Suit Larry 2,
Legend of Kyrandia 1 (except for one instrument),
King's Quest IV,
Budokan, Ultima VI,
Bad Blood,
Simon the Sorcerer,
Loom,
Monkey Island 1,
Dune,
KGB/Conspiracy,
Spellcasting 101: Sorcerers Get All The Girls,
Spellcasting 201: The Sorcerer's Appliance,
Timequest,
Gateway,
Spellcasting 301: Spring Break,
Eric the Unready,
Gateway 2 - Homeworld,
Companions of Xanth,
Death Gate,
Superhero League of Hoboken
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby appiah4 » 2019-7-30 @ 08:34

I see. I will also test KQ4 then. Monkey Island sounds fantastic to me but the range of games it can be used for is rather limited regardless so I doubt this warrants eliminating MUNT or a real MT-32 from my setup..
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby Scali » 2019-7-30 @ 08:37

appiah4 wrote:so I doubt this warrants eliminating MUNT or a real MT-32 from my setup..


It doesn't.
Nothing sounds like a real MT-32. MUNT is the only thing that comes really close.
Any synth with an MT-32 mode, even Roland's own Sound Canvas, is a very poor approximation.
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby appiah4 » 2019-7-30 @ 11:47

Scali wrote:
appiah4 wrote:so I doubt this warrants eliminating MUNT or a real MT-32 from my setup..


It doesn't.
Nothing sounds like a real MT-32. MUNT is the only thing that comes really close.
Any synth with an MT-32 mode, even Roland's own Sound Canvas, is a very poor approximation.


Yeah.. But the X3M isn't that bad at all for what it's actually compatible with.

King's Quest IV: https://soundcloud.com/user-470084971/k ... t-iv-intro
Leisure Suit Larry 2: https://soundcloud.com/user-470084971/l ... ry-2-intro
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby Srandista » 2019-7-30 @ 12:36

Heh, that drum in KQ IV :lol:

Anyway, I would say, it's nice to have functionality, but munt is still unmatched in terms of MT-32 emulation. And there is no reason to eliminate it, since it's not like it occupies excess amount of actual space, even if it's used on RPi.
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby ElBrunzy » 2019-8-13 @ 01:45

keropi wrote:well then, it's a very impressive feature since you do get completely different sounds... I wonder what tools they used to create them

I found the tiido post very interesting too. I remember the LA and PCM mix but I was in the impression it was for drum mostly. Back then I was using drmt32 and l/a-synth (samples) to experiment with the mt32 but I dont remember about the attack pcm sample. Maybe he was refering to the partials ?

I dont mean to hijack that post with off topic subject, but this week-end I was trying some games with the X2 and found that post where you can see falcosoft point this thread to me. So I did try his mt32 emulation .mid work.

What I enjoy about midi is that you can have many re-incarnation of a same music using different sound module or patch set. Of course one would have to at least respect the standard otherwise some sound are just too much out of place. Specifically when games rely on midi to carve sound effects. Softmpu made Monkey Island 1 work alright according to my average standards, but legend of kyrandia was just wrong and softmpu did not help. While falcosoft emulation mid and that new mt32 compatible soundbank certainly got back that nostalgic feeling because the music was closer to the original, I still think the soundfx are wrong. Now when Brandon knock on the wooden wall of his grandfather house a high pitched bass slap might be better than a car horn sound, but I cant believe westwood studio, with them renown quality level, left a kind of trumpet sound when you drop an object on the floor. As I said on my other post I have a mt32 on the basement and will check about that later this week.
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Re: Can I use DreamBlaster X2 for MT-32 emulation

Postby ElBrunzy » 2019-8-17 @ 01:58

I realized it was a bit harder than I expected to run kyrandia with an sb1.5 to drive an mt32 that output onto guspnp. But with the
help of softmpu I was able to make it work, what a good surprise when I saw softmpu written on the mt32.

In the game intro I paid close attention to the soundfx. I noted some from the lcd:
    -superorch?
    -magical
    -door slam
    -memory:treeface (sound like a pcm, it was either a very well done instrument edit or you can upload pcm to the mt32 after all)
The three former where used in the animation when Malcolm chop down a tree. The latter was when the wooden face form on the wall of his grandfather's treehouse, I dont know why it was in "memory" bank. Then the game seem to constantly change superOrch? and send alot of sysex data in between each events.

I did the fatidic test and power cycle the mt32. The music instrument style changed instantly. It was then nearly identical to this
thread's soundbank with mt32 mode set. I now understand why reproducing mt32's soundfx on the x2 cannot be done. But still
wonder why people say that the legend of kyrandia use the unaltered mt32 soundback. Why does the music sound so
different if you let the game initialize the mt32 then reset it? Why does X2 sound like a reset'd mt32 even tho the game see and
initialize it?

also, KQ IV drum is : what !? why not ...
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