VOGONS


Reply 21 of 41, by krcroft

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Spikey wrote:

one point of clarification: Incredible Machine 1 and 2 are GM games, not MT-32

Awesome; they really came alive with proper instruments! TIM2 was fantastic.. the intro now reminds me a bit of the Simpsons' intro track, perhaps with a bit more sci-fi mixed it, from the Jetsons.
For soundfonts, I'm using FatBoy-v0.786 and Don Allen's Timbres of Heaven 3.4; tried some others, but these two are excellent generalists.
Any other tips would be very appreciated!

Reply 24 of 41, by Spikey

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TIM1 has a bug with the MT-32 driver. There is a patch on this forum in the "Sierra/Dynamix" thread stickied in the DOS forum section for improved MT-32 and GM playback.

The game's music was written using a SC-55, as was TIM2, so they will sound good with it or similar imitators.

Reply 25 of 41, by krcroft

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Some nice games there! Mean Streets always blew me away as a young teenager on our Amstrad and my friend's 286, whose Dad wound up buying most of Access Software's games (Links 386 Pro, etc) because it was an easy sell to his wife.

maxtherabbit, I glossed over it the first time you mentioned AWE, but it caught my eye now: you're emulating it? I personally had an AWE32 that I loaded with sticks of RAM (24MB?), and dabbled with different patch sets from BBSes. I came across this AWE emulation discussion that focussed on midi handling: AWE32 emulation?, but there wasn't any emulation software at the time.

Maybe there's a soundfont that mimics AWE's original GM banks? Would be interesting to hear if there are any games authored against the AWE's GM banks (instead of the SC55 or other professional GM rig) and thus sound "better" with an AWE GM bank.

Reply 26 of 41, by maxtherabbit

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krcroft wrote:

Some nice games there! Mean Streets always blew me away as a young teenager on our Amstrad and my friend's 286, whose Dad wound up buying most of Access Software's games (Links 386 Pro, etc) because it was an easy sell to his wife.

maxtherabbit, I glossed over it the first time you mentioned AWE, but it caught my eye now: you're emulating it? I personally had an AWE32 that I loaded with sticks of RAM (24MB?), and dabbled with different patch sets from BBSes. I came across this AWE emulation discussion that focussed on midi handling: AWE32 emulation?, but there wasn't any emulation software at the time.

Maybe there's a soundfont that mimics AWE's original GM banks? Would be interesting to hear if there are any games authored against the AWE's GM banks (instead of the SC55 or other professional GM rig) and thus sound "better" with an AWE GM bank.

I have a physical AWE card, I'm using AWEUTIL in DOS to emulate a General MIDI or MT-32 synth in the EMU chip

Reply 27 of 41, by maxtherabbit

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Spikey wrote:

TIM1 has a bug with the MT-32 driver. There is a patch on this forum in the "Sierra/Dynamix" thread stickied in the DOS forum section for improved MT-32 and GM playback.

The game's music was written using a SC-55, as was TIM2, so they will sound good with it or similar imitators.

Awesome, thanks for the heads up. These damn sierra games are a pain in the dick with their awful sound driver code

Reply 28 of 41, by maxtherabbit

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maxtherabbit wrote:
Spikey wrote:

TIM1 has a bug with the MT-32 driver. There is a patch on this forum in the "Sierra/Dynamix" thread stickied in the DOS forum section for improved MT-32 and GM playback.

The game's music was written using a SC-55, as was TIM2, so they will sound good with it or similar imitators.

Awesome, thanks for the heads up. These damn sierra games are a pain in the dick with their awful sound driver code

So I tried the TIM patch listed in that thread - it "works" in the sense that it fixes General MIDI, but when I try to use the digital sound feature of the patch it locks the system when I try to launch the game

This occurs regardless of whether I'm trying to use the General MIDI+Soundblaster or just plain soundblaster setting, and regardless of whether or not AWEUTIL is resident.

Reply 29 of 41, by maxtherabbit

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UPDATE: the TIM patch is now working perfectly for me

I was getting crashing in many Sierra/Dyanmix titles, but unloading the Bret Johnson USBDOS driver resolved them. It was affecting TIM, Hoyle Classic Card Games, and Island of Dr. Brain. All three of which are now working with GM emulation

Reply 30 of 41, by krcroft

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maxtherabbit wrote:

UPDATE: the TIM patch is now working perfectly for me

I was getting crashing in many Sierra/Dyanmix titles, but unloading the Bret Johnson USBDOS driver resolved them. It was affecting TIM, Hoyle Classic Card Games, and Island of Dr. Brain. All three of which are now working with GM emulation

Excellent! Will give thIs GM patch a whirl on these three.

Side comment.. would love a "definitive audio config" list like this for all of the classics.. (use patch X, use SB Pro, use GUS at 22 KHz, disable CD audio and use this midi patch instead, config game with Yamaha and use soundfont Y, config with GM and use soundfont Z).

I realize this stuff can be highly personal and maybe discussions would devolve into micro nitpicks.. but perhaps the experts could weight in and come to a general concensus. Also, for driver swaps and patches, this stuff is sprinked about vogons with brilliant work from many people; would love it to be aggregated in one place.

Reply 31 of 41, by oohms

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maxtherabbit wrote:

Tyrian2k (gm): just selecting MIDI on port 330 crashed the setup utility - occurs irrespective of AWEUTIL being loaded

I thought tyrian was mainly an adlib game

DOS/w3.11/w98 | K6-III+ 400ATZ @ 550 | FIC PA2013 | 128mb SDram | Voodoo 3 3000 | Avancelogic ALS100 | Roland SC-55ST
DOS/w98/XP | Core 2 Duo E4600 | Asus P5PE-VM | 512mb DDR400 | Ti4800SE | ForteMedia FM801

Reply 32 of 41, by maxtherabbit

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oohms wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:

Tyrian2k (gm): just selecting MIDI on port 330 crashed the setup utility - occurs irrespective of AWEUTIL being loaded

I thought tyrian was mainly an adlib game

The AdLib music in it is definitely the best. Trying to get it to work with GM was really just an academic effort

Reply 33 of 41, by Spikey

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Side comment.. would love a "definitive audio config" list like this for all of the classics.. (use patch X, use SB Pro, use GUS at 22 KHz, disable CD audio and use this midi patch instead, config game with Yamaha and use soundfont Y, config with GM and use soundfont Z).

krcroft, I made one for Sierra games a while back. Although as long as you know Laura Bow 2/Police Quest 1 VGA/Quest for Glory 1 VGA/Space Quest 4 are all MT-32 games, and KQ6/LSL6/QFG3 and after are GM, you'll probably be fine.

Reply 34 of 41, by maxtherabbit

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moved the list of games tested with AWE emulation to the OP, so it will be an easier reference as I continue to go through the long list of real mode MIDI games and test

Reply 35 of 41, by krcroft

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Spikey wrote:

Side comment.. would love a "definitive audio config" list like this for all of the classics.. (use patch X, use SB Pro, use GUS at 22 KHz, disable CD audio and use this midi patch instead, config game with Yamaha and use soundfont Y, config with GM and use soundfont Z).

krcroft, I made one for Sierra games a while back. Although as long as you know Laura Bow 2/Police Quest 1 VGA/Quest for Glory 1 VGA/Space Quest 4 are all MT-32 games, and KQ6/LSL6/QFG3 and after are GM, you'll probably be fine.

Right on Spikey; thanks for the info; will make sure those are set accordingly. Would also be thankful to see your patch (or recommendation details) if you have it handy!

Reply 36 of 41, by Spikey

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I couldn't seem to find it, but basically use the patches from the stickied thread here on VOGONS to fix polyphony issues, and a couple of cool fixes like restoring GS drumkits in SQ5, fixing incorrect music track playback in Sorcerian's second half, and more. Those patches are mostly applicable to GM games and cause instruments to be spread around 16 channels better, instead of just 2-10, causing some instruments to not get played when SFX are played (e.g. SQ5's intro sequence, when the 'alarm' Tenor Sax sound effects plays, so many channels get used that the glockenspiel never is heard in game), especially when the MIDI device is used for playing SFX.

There are a couple of game wide patches that are helpful beyond audio, including KQ4 and SQ4.

Otherwise, Larry 5 in theory is a CM-32L game, but not only do the couple of sound effects sound awful, they are blocked in the driver (I forget if there was a patch for it). I would play it with a software CM-32L if you must, otherwise no biggie (although polyphony issues mean this game and PQ3 are better on software than hardware).

SQ5 and many Sierra games use GS drum notes, SQ5 drum kits also. Meaning only a Sound Canvas (usually SC-55/variants) will play most Sierra GM games properly, and not a lot else.

MT-32 games go from KQ4 to PQ1VGA/LB2/QFG1VGA/SQ4, GM games go from KQ6 onwards. Beware using the MT-32 for the majority of GM games. The patch map via SysEx Sierra used is flawed and misses instruments. Some (especially later) games have buggy MT-32 conversion also, like QFG4, SQ6 and KQ7.

I might go through all the games in case to double check. 😀

Reply 38 of 41, by DataPro

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Innocent until caught is listed but I can't make it work with SB AWE64 and roland MT-32... neither SB AWE64 nor MT-32 alone
I use CT-VOICE.DRV 06 OCT 1993 17.9 KB (18,386 bytes) Version 3.07.03

HP Vectra 562 P166Mhz/256Ko L2 cache/Triton 430FX - 112Mo RAM - 2x 32Go+64Go CF Card - Matrox G2 8Mo - SB AWE64 ISA (PnP) + Roland MT-32 & M-GS64 (SC-88) & JV-1010 - Nec USB 2.0 PCI - Promise Ultra100 TX2 - Hama multicard reader

Reply 39 of 41, by Spikey

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When you say can't make it work, what does that mean? Does the game load? Does either music or SFX play?

The usual problem I had with that hardware mix was IRQ conflicts.