VOGONS


AWE64 Gold Engineering sample

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First post, by yjfy

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CT4390 or CT4540?
http://www.yjfy.com/images/oldhard/sound/CT4390_ES.jpg
http://www.yjfy.com/images/oldhard/sound/CT4390_ES_1.jpg

Last edited by yjfy on 2020-01-15, 02:13. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 1 of 30, by derSammler

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PCB is from week 28, 1997. That's not an engineering sample. Why would you think that at all? Because of that hand-written sticker?

That's the original AWE64 Gold, CT4390. The CT4540 looks noticeably different.

http://retro-net.de/blog.html

Reply 3 of 30, by imi

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if it looks like a CT4390 and it walks like a CT4390, it is probably a CT4390.

it also clearly states so on the PCB and sticker 😕

CT4540 looks different:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/common … Sbawe64gold.jpg

Reply 6 of 30, by maxtherabbit

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yjfy wrote:

Real experts or collectors identify it as an engineering sample.

based on what? I honestly can't see a difference between it and my retail CT4390

Reply 7 of 30, by Thermalwrong

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He's pointing out that the main chip is a completely different revision than what you'd typically see on a CT4390 card. The later CT4540 has the MCQ chip, the CT4390 has the DAQ chip:
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/v/3dfx_collectors/ … ageViewsIndex=1

Which I guess mean's that the pinout is the same on both, cool card 😀

Reply 8 of 30, by maxtherabbit

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Thermalwrong wrote:

He's pointing out that the main chip is a completely different revision than what you'd typically see on a CT4390 card. The later CT4540 has the MCQ chip, the CT4390 has the DAQ chip:
http://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/v/3dfx_collectors/ … ageViewsIndex=1

Which I guess mean's that the pinout is the same on both, cool card 😀

thank you

Reply 9 of 30, by imi

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Thermalwrong wrote:

He's pointing out that the main chip is a completely different revision than what you'd typically see on a CT4390 card. The later CT4540 has the MCQ chip, the CT4390 has the DAQ chip

thank you for the explanation, this wasn't being pointed out at all unfortunately unless you know what to look for, the thread started very cryptic 😁

so it's a CT4390 with MCQ chip 😀

Reply 10 of 30, by PCBONEZ

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That's interesting but contrary to what collectors think that still doesn't make it an engineering sample.

If they had a surplus of CT4390 PCBs in stock at the factory when they started getting the MCQ chips in they would have used up the remaining (and obviously pin compatible) CT4390 PCBs for the newer MCQ chips rather than scrap the already made CT4390 PCBs.
It would be stupid economically not to do that and it's a very common practice in a many industries, not just electronics.

Also the CT4390 and CT4540 are functionally identical.
There is no sensible nor logical reason for engineering/qualification samples to even exist between those models.

Can you direct me to these collectors?
I heard about some swamp, I mean, resort property in Florida.
.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
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Reply 11 of 30, by Tiido

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The 3 letters after CTxxxx number is code for manufacturer of the chip from what I have understood. Creative cannot produce the chips themselves and various companies like OKI, Sharp, UMC, NEC, Toshiba and others are making the physical parts for them. Chip with different manufacturer code functions identically to another, manufacturers can be identified by the details of physical chip package since everyone has their own unique moulding and lettering. You can see this easily on various EMU8000 chips, the 3 letters always match physical shape of the chip and same thing applies to other Creative parts too.

Last edited by Tiido on 2019-11-30, 06:23. Edited 1 time in total.

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 12 of 30, by Warlord

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I don't think it's an engineering sample either, It might be a repaired card, using a chip off another. Or someone tried to repair it, it looks pretty bad to me. If you look at all the other chips they all looks scratched and dinged up but that one chip looks brand new. Its a later revision chip on a earlier card so its not a engineering sample. I don't see anything obvious wthat would indicate to me its an engineering sample. Looks like big time Chinese scam,

Just because that chip says MCQ on it means nothing unless it was a common practice for creative to label all of the engineering sample chips MCQ across all of their models which they didn't but mcq isn't a ES rev unlike Intel which lables them as ES.

Reply 13 of 30, by dr_st

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Warlord wrote:

I don't think it's an engineering sample either, It might be a repaired card, using a chip off another. Or someone tried to repair it, it looks pretty bad to me. If you look at all the other chips they all looks scratched and dinged up but that one chip looks brand new. Its a later revision chip on a earlier card so its not a engineering sample. I don't see anything obvious wthat would indicate to me its an engineering sample. Looks like big time Chinese scam

This is the more likely explanation.

Reply 14 of 30, by imi

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I think it being a surplus PCB during the transition period from DAQ to MCQ might be the most plausible.

wathever it is, it's still a nice odd little card I guess 😀

Reply 15 of 30, by PCBONEZ

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There are several plausible explanations here.
Quite possible more than one are true too.

Very possible the card posted was repaired by way of a new chip but with the number of supposed engineering samples I'm seeing (without even looking for them) I don't think that's the case with all of them.

The real point is we agree (or seem to) that the engineering sample claim is BS.

Last edited by PCBONEZ on 2019-11-30, 11:36. Edited 1 time in total.

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 16 of 30, by jaZz_KCS

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PCBONEZ wrote:

The real point is we agree that the engineering sample claim is BS.

Nope, it just confirms you are neither a "real expert" or a "collector". 🤣
Joking, ofc. This was definitely a half-assed try by someone to make this card appear rarer than it is.

Reply 17 of 30, by PCBONEZ

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I'm a "real expert collector" but I specialize in junk. 🤣 🤣
Real junk, not fake junk. 🤣 🤣

GRUMPY OLD FART - On Hiatus, sort'a
Mann-Made Global Warming. - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.

Reply 18 of 30, by yjfy

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In 2007, a batch of engineering samples processed by Creative entered China. My more than 50 Creative sound and video cards are all from these engineering samples. The average is less than $20. Is it necessary to cheat?
Let's take a look at the features of Creative's engineering samples!
1. sound card
1.1 SB Live
CT4620
009752: front left lower corner
00: version 00, prototype / engineering sample
97:year
52:week
http://yjfy.com/images/oldhard/sound/CT4620_009752.jpg
http://yjfy.com/images/oldhard/sound/CT4620_009752_1.jpg

Last edited by yjfy on 2020-01-15, 02:15. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 19 of 30, by yjfy

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CT4620
019817
01: version 01, official product. There are also engineering sample or qualification sample. This is the qualification sample
98:year
17:week
http://yjfy.com/images/oldhard/sound/CT4620_019817.jpg
http://yjfy.com/images/oldhard/sound/CT4620_019817_1.jpg

Last edited by yjfy on 2020-01-15, 02:16. Edited 1 time in total.