darry wrote on 2023-09-30, 04:40:

Do you need any parts ? I might be able to help. I believe that we live relatively close to each other. Please feel free to PM me.

That's a generous offer, but we've waited this long, so a few more years won't kill anyone. 😉

The machine I was using was already struggling with the work, so if I decide to get back to it, and the budget permits, I'll probably just opt for one of the low-cost Amazon mini-machines to do that part of the work. They're new, have a few times the processing power of the old thing and reportedly run Linux quite nicely. I'd probably have to pay about as much for parts and other passives just to fix the old machine, and it would still do an inferior job.

primetime wrote on 2023-09-25, 00:12:

640K!enough here are the two files.

I had a look at the two files, and it is indeed a peculiar problem. In the first case, it seems to behave perfectly. Then, with that adaptor installed on the secondary channel, the Crystal device doesn't enumerate or respond at all to any type of initialisation sequence. There's something making the chip very unhappy, and it doesn't have a software work-around. It would be nice to know what's going on under the hood in these situations, but I'm not sure we'll get to that point.

640K!enough wrote on 2023-09-30, 06:16:

darry wrote on 2023-09-30, 04:40:

Do you need any parts ? I might be able to help. I believe that we live relatively close to each other. Please feel free to PM me.

That's a generous offer, but we've waited this long, so a few more years won't kill anyone. 😉

The machine I was using was already struggling with the work, so if I decide to get back to it, and the budget permits, I'll probably just opt for one of the low-cost Amazon mini-machines to do that part of the work. They're new, have a few times the processing power of the old thing and reportedly run Linux quite nicely. I'd probably have to pay about as much for parts and other passives just to fix the old machine, and it would still do an inferior job.

I know someone who just got one of these [1] for 329 CAN$ + taxes and shipping . It seems to be working out great so far . I will probably pick up something similar for my wife once her machine gets too long in the the tooth . All things considered, one of these might be a decent replacement for my Dell M4800 notebook, if I can coax a lane or two of PCIE out of it (I can probably use a PCIE switch on the m.2 NVME slot using [2] an [3]), like I did on my NAS ..

[1]
https://www.amazon.ca/Windows-256G-TRIGKEY-S3 … B09JC6DYFW?th=1

[2]
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0BRSRT89F/

[3]
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B089Q1FKNW/

640K!enough wrote on 2023-09-30, 03:11:

Where Sierra titles are concerned, it is important to mention that the driver that we are using is an official Sierra driver that was shared by Cloudschatze via keropi. That driver was originally released by Sierra, at the request of Mediatrix Peripherals, for the Audiotrix Pro. My only contribution was modifying one instruction so that the output was mostly correct for those using output via S/PDIF (and only when the base port is 534H).

The Audiotrix Pro used a Crystal CS4231, so I suspect the drivers aren't doing anything TOO funny for the newer chip on the Orpheus cards. FWIW, I was able to get Daredevil's modified CDFM tracker (originally targeting the Audiotrix Pro) working on the Orpheus by just changing the hardcoded DMA and IRQ channels in the source. The rest of the code pointed to the 530h base address like any WSS device would use. Worked fine with SPDIF with no additional modification too.

For reference, the Audiotrix Pro used 530h/IRQ 9/DMA 3 for it's default settings for the CS4231 while the Soundblaster section used 220h/IRQ 7/DMA 1. Mediatrix likely pushed Sierra for official support since like the SB16, the Audiotrix Pro was NOT SoundBlaster Pro compatible and wouldn't play stereo digital audio.

darry wrote on 2023-09-30, 07:23:

I know someone who just got one of these [1] for 329 CAN$ + taxes and shipping .

If your wife's needs are relatively modest, you can spend a little more time looking and find Intel-based machines for less. Just as an extra development machine for these purposes, that's likely the approach I will take (if I decide to go ahead). In addition to being much more powerful, they are far more power-efficient than the old AMD-based thing that bit the dust. One thing to note is that the built-in storage isn't always noted for its long-term reliability, so keep that in mind if she/you will be storing valuable data on it (backing up more often and/or replacing the module might be a good idea). And now, back to your regularly-scheduled Orpheus-related content.

NJRoadfan wrote on 2023-09-30, 16:07:

The Audiotrix Pro used a Crystal CS4231, so I suspect the drivers aren't doing anything TOO funny for the newer chip on the Orpheus cards.

That's the key detail: the Sierra/Mediatrix driver works, but some of it is kind of sloppy or questionable, and doesn't support all of the less common configurations that can be used on more recent Crystal chips. A complete re-write wouldn't be a bad idea.

640K!enough wrote on 2023-09-30, 06:31:

primetime wrote on 2023-09-25, 00:12:

640K!enough here are the two files.

I had a look at the two files, and it is indeed a peculiar problem. In the first case, it seems to behave perfectly. Then, with that adaptor installed on the secondary channel, the Crystal device doesn't enumerate or respond at all to any type of initialisation sequence. There's something making the chip very unhappy, and it doesn't have a software work-around. It would be nice to know what's going on under the hood in these situations, but I'm not sure we'll get to that point.

Yep that's right. This behaviour is basically the same if the Orpheus is not installed in the system - it produces the same error/result trying to init. Thanks for taking a look anyway, we can leave it here as FYI for those people who are using the CF-SD adapters.

Meanwhile, I've bought some proper CF cards off e-Bay, no more of these cheap CF-SD adapters, just causing more issues that it solves really.

I have a question a bit out topic. I've got a PCI soundcard that can play OPL3 music in DOS games. It is actually not a real OPL3 soundcard, but it must have some op3 compatible synth inside of a bigger Yamaha IC named YMF724. It also has an XG MIDI wavetable synthesizer onboard so it can do both things - play opl3 fm music and use wavetable when there is an option in DOS game settings.
This soundcard must have SPDIF output, but manufacturer haven't populated the PCB with required components though it has holes on it and they are also signed on a pcb mask. Would somebody please help with information what components it should be. My first guess there must be some resistors and capacitors and also something that must be a signal transformer because caps seats are named as C, resistors named R, and a big component that is excluded and named T1 must be a transofmer. There might be some other components that should be soldered in order to restore full functionality. Can somebody please help? I'm not familiar with soundcard schematics and have no idea where to find some references.

Galova wrote on 2023-10-28, 22:34:

I have a question a bit out topic. I've got a PCI soundcard that can play OPL3 music in DOS games. It is actually not a real OPL3 soundcard, but it must have some op3 compatible synth inside of a bigger Yamaha IC named YMF724. It also has an XG MIDI wavetable synthesizer onboard so it can do both things - play opl3 fm music and use wavetable when there is an option in DOS game settings.
This soundcard must have SPDIF output, but manufacturer haven't populated the PCB with required components though it has holes on it and they are also signed on a pcb mask. Would somebody please help with information what components it should be. My first guess there must be some resistors and capacitors and also something that must be a signal transformer because caps seats are named as C, resistors named R, and a big component that is excluded and named T1 must be a transofmer. There might be some other components that should be soldered in order to restore full functionality. Can somebody please help? I'm not familiar with soundcard schematics and have no idea where to find some references.

you should open a new thread with some good pictures of the card.

DerBaum wrote on 2023-10-28, 23:40:

Galova wrote on 2023-10-28, 22:34:

I have a question a bit out topic. I've got a PCI soundcard that can play OPL3 music in DOS games. It is actually not a real OPL3 soundcard, but it must have some op3 compatible synth inside of a bigger Yamaha IC named YMF724. It also has an XG MIDI wavetable synthesizer onboard so it can do both things - play opl3 fm music and use wavetable when there is an option in DOS game settings.
This soundcard must have SPDIF output, but manufacturer haven't populated the PCB with required components though it has holes on it and they are also signed on a pcb mask. Would somebody please help with information what components it should be. My first guess there must be some resistors and capacitors and also something that must be a signal transformer because caps seats are named as C, resistors named R, and a big component that is excluded and named T1 must be a transofmer. There might be some other components that should be soldered in order to restore full functionality. Can somebody please help? I'm not familiar with soundcard schematics and have no idea where to find some references.

you should open a new thread with some good pictures of the card.

I will make some picture as good as possible. Probably start a new topic of course.
I just thought that topic starter is a true expert as well as probably some of the visitors here and would possibly have some clues since making a new sound card requires indepth knowledge far beyond common one even among experienced electronics hobbists..

I finally got around to properly testing this card in Windows 98 SE but no matter what, I can't get the line-in to work? It works fine using UNISOUND in DOS but no in Windows for some reason. since I use MP32L with MT32 Pi this is quite annoying since I need it to feed the MT-32 audio (or synthwave audio) back to the sound card. Does anyone have an idea?

And yes, the display of the MP32L shows it's making sound & if I hook up a speaker it works fine but I don't want two speaker sets obviously.

I cannot think of any reason this happens other than windows themselves... was this a fresh install or you had a previous soundcard installed?
is line-in listed in the multimedia settings control panel? maybe muted in some mixer?

keropi wrote on 2023-12-15, 19:31:

I cannot think of any reason this happens other than windows themselves... was this a fresh install or you had a previous soundcard installed?
is line-in listed in the multimedia settings control panel? maybe muted in some mixer?

Thanks for the fast reply. It's listed and not muted. Windows used to have a SB Live inside of it but everything else works fine?

EDIT: ok, weird, Line-in works but NOT if I play a DOS game in Windows. I was testing with DOOM and get no music at all. If I play a MIDI in Windows, it DOES go through the MP32L.

EDIT: OK I fixed it - very weird but even though I used UNISOUND to set the volume, Windows 98 would ignore it. I had to run UNISOUND within Windows 98 to make it work again. Strange ...

great!
but I don't think you should have to run any kind of DOS utility under win9x to get proper win-dos support - doesn't hurt but if you ever make a clean install I don't think you'll have this issue... win9x are not exactly the best OS to swap drivers but if it works it works 😀

Is the Line-In muted in the Windows mixer panel?

red_avatar wrote on 2023-12-15, 19:42:

Thanks for the fast reply. It's listed and not muted. Windows used to have a SB Live inside of it but everything else works fine?

EDIT: ok, weird, Line-in works but NOT if I play a DOS game in Windows. I was testing with DOOM and get no music at all. If I play a MIDI in Windows, it DOES go through the MP32L.

EDIT: OK I fixed it - very weird but even though I used UNISOUND to set the volume, Windows 98 would ignore it. I had to run UNISOUND within Windows 98 to make it work again. Strange ...

The first thing that has to be mentioned is that you do not want to be running UNISOUND from within Windows. UNISOUND is a complete, stand-alone initialisation and configuration tool for DOS, and there is always some risk of completely pulling the rug out from under the Windows configuration manager and Plug and Play sub-systems. In specific circumstances, this can lead to bad things happening. Even absent those particular situations, it is generally not a good idea.

From the behaviour you're describing, it sounds like the DOS title you're trying to run is using Sound Blaster compatibility mode, correct? If that is the case, it is a side-effect of the way Crystal implemented the mode switch. In switching to compatibility mode (from the native WSS mode used by the Windows drivers), default hardware values are used for the Sound Blaster Pro mixer; the default for the line input is 0 (mute). The safe way to get around this problem is to use a DOS tool that will set the SB mixer values only (no other initialisation performed). Obvious choices are CWDMIX or the original Creative SB Pro mixer tool.

It is worth pointing out that, for this to work, you will have to open a command prompt, use the mixer tool, and launch your DOS title from that same command prompt. The second your DOS session ends, the Windows drivers assume control and restore the WSS state, causing your changes to be lost. Another option is to create a batch file that first applies your SB mixer settings, then immediately launches the DOS title you want.

All of that makes so much sense. Mixer settings on DOS era sound cards and games is such a mess.

640K!enough wrote on 2023-12-16, 20:57:

The first thing that has to be mentioned is that you do not want to be running UNISOUND from within Windows. UNISOUND is a comp […]
Show full quote

red_avatar wrote on 2023-12-15, 19:42:

Thanks for the fast reply. It's listed and not muted. Windows used to have a SB Live inside of it but everything else works fine?

EDIT: ok, weird, Line-in works but NOT if I play a DOS game in Windows. I was testing with DOOM and get no music at all. If I play a MIDI in Windows, it DOES go through the MP32L.

EDIT: OK I fixed it - very weird but even though I used UNISOUND to set the volume, Windows 98 would ignore it. I had to run UNISOUND within Windows 98 to make it work again. Strange ...

The first thing that has to be mentioned is that you do not want to be running UNISOUND from within Windows. UNISOUND is a complete, stand-alone initialisation and configuration tool for DOS, and there is always some risk of completely pulling the rug out from under the Windows configuration manager and Plug and Play sub-systems. In specific circumstances, this can lead to bad things happening. Even absent those particular situations, it is generally not a good idea.

From the behaviour you're describing, it sounds like the DOS title you're trying to run is using Sound Blaster compatibility mode, correct? If that is the case, it is a side-effect of the way Crystal implemented the mode switch. In switching to compatibility mode (from the native WSS mode used by the Windows drivers), default hardware values are used for the Sound Blaster Pro mixer; the default for the line input is 0 (mute). The safe way to get around this problem is to use a DOS tool that will set the SB mixer values only (no other initialisation performed). Obvious choices are CWDMIX or the original Creative SB Pro mixer tool.

It is worth pointing out that, for this to work, you will have to open a command prompt, use the mixer tool, and launch your DOS title from that same command prompt. The second your DOS session ends, the Windows drivers assume control and restore the WSS state, causing your changes to be lost. Another option is to create a batch file that first applies your SB mixer settings, then immediately launches the DOS title you want.

Thanks for the info. Normally I never run DOS games from Windows but I was trying to see if I could use Alcohol 120% and a USB drive to basically store my DOS game CDs as images and since you can only do this in Windows ...

Since the CD drive in the machine can't be slowed down under DOS making it rather loud which made this a solution + I don't have to keep a stack of CDs at my desk this way. I already do this for Windows games but I'll need to figure something out for DOS then. I wish we'd get an affordable solution to emulate a CD drive under DOS ...

red_avatar wrote on 2023-12-17, 19:10:

640K!enough wrote on 2023-12-16, 20:57:

The first thing that has to be mentioned is that you do not want to be running UNISOUND from within Windows. UNISOUND is a comp […]
Show full quote

red_avatar wrote on 2023-12-15, 19:42:

Thanks for the fast reply. It's listed and not muted. Windows used to have a SB Live inside of it but everything else works fine?

EDIT: ok, weird, Line-in works but NOT if I play a DOS game in Windows. I was testing with DOOM and get no music at all. If I play a MIDI in Windows, it DOES go through the MP32L.

EDIT: OK I fixed it - very weird but even though I used UNISOUND to set the volume, Windows 98 would ignore it. I had to run UNISOUND within Windows 98 to make it work again. Strange ...

The first thing that has to be mentioned is that you do not want to be running UNISOUND from within Windows. UNISOUND is a complete, stand-alone initialisation and configuration tool for DOS, and there is always some risk of completely pulling the rug out from under the Windows configuration manager and Plug and Play sub-systems. In specific circumstances, this can lead to bad things happening. Even absent those particular situations, it is generally not a good idea.

From the behaviour you're describing, it sounds like the DOS title you're trying to run is using Sound Blaster compatibility mode, correct? If that is the case, it is a side-effect of the way Crystal implemented the mode switch. In switching to compatibility mode (from the native WSS mode used by the Windows drivers), default hardware values are used for the Sound Blaster Pro mixer; the default for the line input is 0 (mute). The safe way to get around this problem is to use a DOS tool that will set the SB mixer values only (no other initialisation performed). Obvious choices are CWDMIX or the original Creative SB Pro mixer tool.

It is worth pointing out that, for this to work, you will have to open a command prompt, use the mixer tool, and launch your DOS title from that same command prompt. The second your DOS session ends, the Windows drivers assume control and restore the WSS state, causing your changes to be lost. Another option is to create a batch file that first applies your SB mixer settings, then immediately launches the DOS title you want.

Thanks for the info. Normally I never run DOS games from Windows but I was trying to see if I could use Alcohol 120% and a USB drive to basically store my DOS game CDs as images and since you can only do this in Windows ...

Since the CD drive in the machine can't be slowed down under DOS making it rather loud which made this a solution + I don't have to keep a stack of CDs at my desk this way. I already do this for Windows games but I'll need to figure something out for DOS then. I wish we'd get an affordable solution to emulate a CD drive under DOS ...

It's possible to mount ISO files but not BIN/CUE files, which include Red Book audio.

Kahenraz wrote on 2023-12-17, 23:02:

red_avatar wrote on 2023-12-17, 19:10:

640K!enough wrote on 2023-12-16, 20:57:

The first thing that has to be mentioned is that you do not want to be running UNISOUND from within Windows. UNISOUND is a complete, stand-alone initialisation and configuration tool for DOS, and there is always some risk of completely pulling the rug out from under the Windows configuration manager and Plug and Play sub-systems. In specific circumstances, this can lead to bad things happening. Even absent those particular situations, it is generally not a good idea.

From the behaviour you're describing, it sounds like the DOS title you're trying to run is using Sound Blaster compatibility mode, correct? If that is the case, it is a side-effect of the way Crystal implemented the mode switch. In switching to compatibility mode (from the native WSS mode used by the Windows drivers), default hardware values are used for the Sound Blaster Pro mixer; the default for the line input is 0 (mute). The safe way to get around this problem is to use a DOS tool that will set the SB mixer values only (no other initialisation performed). Obvious choices are CWDMIX or the original Creative SB Pro mixer tool.

It is worth pointing out that, for this to work, you will have to open a command prompt, use the mixer tool, and launch your DOS title from that same command prompt. The second your DOS session ends, the Windows drivers assume control and restore the WSS state, causing your changes to be lost. Another option is to create a batch file that first applies your SB mixer settings, then immediately launches the DOS title you want.

Thanks for the info. Normally I never run DOS games from Windows but I was trying to see if I could use Alcohol 120% and a USB drive to basically store my DOS game CDs as images and since you can only do this in Windows ...

Since the CD drive in the machine can't be slowed down under DOS making it rather loud which made this a solution + I don't have to keep a stack of CDs at my desk this way. I already do this for Windows games but I'll need to figure something out for DOS then. I wish we'd get an affordable solution to emulate a CD drive under DOS ...

It's possible to mount ISO files but not BIN/CUE files, which include Red Book audio.

Yeah it's especially the CDs with music that are an issue - even under Windows, it slows down the PC a lot if you use Alcohol 120% because I assume the emulation is quite CPU intensive for a Pentium II 333. On my PIII 1Ghz I didn't notice any problems but it's rare to find a late 90's game that still had CD audio - by then, most games just used audio files for music.