Disabling the ISA card in Win98 will result in the device not getting PNP resources in the "reboot to dos" mode of win98.

With both cards installed in Windows, you just use the multimedia panel in control panel to set the default midi/wav/input/outputs. This default means that windows games use the newer windows sound card and never the AWE64.

In DOS, just let the AWE config do its thing as usual. Configure the dos games for the hardware. Just don't initialise any other card.

For XP? not sure but i think it'd be the same - dont disable anything, just configure defaults.

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my situation is similar with an ISA AWE64 and PCI YMF744 card, though i initialise both my sound cards in DOS because the YMF744 PCI card is the only OPL chip I have and the AWE64 is the only "true" SB16 card i have.

how mine works:

The DOS startup initialises the AWE64 and then I manually start the SETUPDS utility which intialises the YMF744's resources (FM chip). DOS games are configured using the AWE64's SB16 sound or AWE music, then choose adlib at the YMF744's address if I don't use AWE music.

I have a short 2 inch 3.5 to 3.5mm jack to carry AWE64 output to the YMF744's line in. The only issue with this setup is that I MUST initialise the YMF744 even if i dont need to use it (or the pass-thru stereo mixing won't work and i hear nothing -OR- i have a first world problem and directly plug into the AWE64). If you're using a mixer then you wont need to worry about this stuff.

In Windows 98SE both are enabled but everything uses the YMF744 by default - Wave, Midi, Recording. Sometimes running a DOS game in Windows still uses the AWE64 via the YMF744 stereo mix. I also get a lot less hiss and noise with this hardware config compared to the single AWE64.

It took me a few days to get working and was a pain redoing a few things but im glad it worked out as i initially planned. Good luck to you!

You route the PCI card's Line Out to the ISA card's Line IN internally. CD Adio is connected to ISA card. Both cards are present in Windows device manager but only ISA card is initialized in Real DOS and OS/2. That's how I do it.

I have a PCI/2xISA sound setup in my main Pentium III rig. The PCI card is Sound Blaster Live 5.1, the ISA cards are SB32 CT3930 and GUS MAX.

Honestly, the main reason for having a PCI card here is to be able to use a IR drive front panel for the Live card. It just makes the system look a bit more "interesting", because most of the ATX cases are a bit bland.

I've rerouted Live into SB32 and SB32 into GUS. Live is selected as the main soundcard in Win98 and I've configured SB32 and GUS in both Win98 and DOS mode.

I use an Opti 82C930 (ISA) for DOS 6.22 and an Audigy 2 ZS (PCI) for Windows 98. The Opti card doesn't support plug and play, so Windows 98 doesn't even detect it unless I manually install the drivers via Add New Hardware. Similarly, I don't load the Audigy drivers in DOS so it's practically non-existent there.

For games where I prefer OPL3 sound, I use DOS 6.22 and the Opti card. If I want General Midi, I play the games inside a Windows 98 DOS prompt after loading a nice soundfont onto the Audigy. Both systems are on separate hard disks and I choose which one boots up from the BIOS.

p6889k wrote:

If I go the dual sound route, should I eventually change to better PCI card - which one?

Your P4 system is much enough for Audigy card. Audigy has much better output. You can route AWE64's output into Audigy and have fun in Windows and pure DOS.

p6889k wrote:

Disable AWE64 in Device Manager and enable only PCI Audio?

No. Just set PCI card as default and all Windows applications (games included) will use it. DOS games will use ISA AWE64 even in Windows session even with PCI default.

p6889k wrote:

Are there ever problems where SW sees both cards and doesn't work properly?

Never.

p6889k wrote:

How do you physically switch audio input between the two cards to your speakers? Do you have some sort of external splitter or switch? Is there perhaps a way to route audio from ISA card to PCI card and use the PCI card in a sort of pass through mode so that only one audio cable is coming out of PC? I assume this could work in Windows by connecting it to AUX In, but not sure about DOS - But it's pointless in Windows as I want PCI in windows, not ISA.

If you wish to plug Audigy (not Audigy2) you'll get necessary functionality. I use four ISA cards and mix them all at one Audigy card. It's much more better than reroute each other in series.

p6889k, I'm curious about your 875P+2xISA motherboard. Which? iBASE MB820? I don't know others 875P+2xISA. SUPERMICRO P4SCA is 875P but it has 3xISA. I'm using DFI G7S620-N with 2xISA and Core 2.

PARUS wrote:

p6889k, I'm curious about your 875P+2xISA motherboard. Which? iBASE MB820? I don't know others 875P+2xISA. SUPERMICRO P4SCA is 875P but it has 3xISA. I'm using DFI G7S620-N with 2xISA and Core 2.

Yes, ibase MB820. Very nice board, 2x ISA, works flawlessly. I have a Northwood 2.8ghz/512/512 in it for now, but eventually want to try out P4 Extreme 3.4. I'll just add that since this is industrial board it has no bios settings to adjust FSB or multiplier, all you can do is change RAM timings and disable L1,L2,L3 cache.

PARUS wrote:

No. Just set PCI card as default and all Windows applications (games included) will use it. DOS games will use ISA AWE64 even in Windows session even with PCI default.

I don't have sufficient experience yet with DOS games in a Windows. Is it preferable to use ISA vs PCI for this scenario? I thought that DOS Windowed games work just fine with PCI and don't need ISA. But honestly haven't messed around with it enough yet, mostly have been focused on just getting pure DOS working correctly. When you say windowed dos games use ISA, is that automatic or can it be changed if needed to use the PCI - not sure if it's desirable, unless my earlier assumption that "windowed dos games play fine with PCI" is correct.

PARUS wrote:

If you wish to plug Audigy (not Audigy2) you'll get necessary functionality. I use four ISA cards and mix them all at one Audigy card. It's much more better than reroute each other in series.

Why the preference for Audigy 1 vs 2? Does it have some unique features to allow AWE64 to plug into it? Also, just to double check, you're talking about pure DOS mode? ISA sound can be routed to Audigy in pure DOS and Audigy just sends it out?

Thank you.

foil_fresh wrote:

Sometimes running a DOS game in Windows still uses the AWE64 via the YMF744 stereo mix. I also get a lot less hiss and noise with this hardware config compared to the single AWE64.

Thank you for all the detail, great info. How does windows decide whether to use ISA or PCI for your windowed DOS games? Do you do anything or is that by default PCI is used, but for some reason some games pickup the ISA?

p6889k wrote:

my earlier assumption that "windowed dos games play fine with PCI" is correct

Almost yes. But not always, often not fine, not 100%... Anyway if you have ISA bus just leave it for DOS sound independent of pure/windowed session. You do have so excellent mobo with ISA, just forget about PCI DOS sound.

p6889k wrote:

When you say windowed dos games use ISA, is that automatic or can it be changed if needed to use the PCI

No need to use PCI wave sound for DOS if you have ISA. Anyway. DOS games use ISA card "automatic" if PCI card hasn't been started Sound Blaster emulation. If you install Audigy the SB emulation will not install as default.

p6889k wrote:

Why the preference for Audigy 1 vs 2? Does it have some unique features to allow AWE64 to plug into it? Also, just to double check, you're talking about pure DOS mode? ISA sound can be routed to Audigy in pure DOS and Audigy just sends it out?

To double check I'm talking about pure DOS 😀 ISA sound can be routed to Audigy in pure DOS and Audigy just sends it out. A1 hasn't any unique features which absent on A2. The DOS mixer for A2 just was not created. It exists for Live and Audigy1.

p6889k wrote:

Thank you for all the detail, great info. How does windows decide whether to use ISA or PCI for your windowed DOS games? Do you do anything or is that by default PCI is used, but for some reason some games pickup the ISA?

Please read once again carefully and don't equate Yamaha and others PCI. He is talking about YMF744, it's best of PCI cards for DOS games in Windows session. Please don't think that you can take any other PCI sound card and get a same result. I advise: you have ISA bus, forget about PCI sound for DOS games. AWE64 is too noisy? Get an ISA card which has much more clear sound.

p6889k wrote:

all you can do is change RAM timings and disable L1,L2,L3 cache

Not all. You can throttle it. For example you can't throttle P2, P3. But you can throttle P4. And never get error 200 in pure DOS.

Take ISA Yamaha 71x (only less ADPCM but it's not scary). Take a good ESS card. You have found so awesome motherboard! Can't you indeed find a good ISA cards for it? ESS688/1688/1868, YMF718/719 aren't expensive and they often sound good. Crystal, OPTi, AD are usually noisier.

PARUS wrote:

p6889k wrote:

all you can do is change RAM timings and disable L1,L2,L3 cache

Not all. You can throttle it. For example you can't throttle P2, P3. But you can throttle P4. And never get error 200 in pure DOS.

I'm not sure i'm following, are you saying I should be able to throttle P4 in my board? How?

PARUS wrote:

Take ISA Yamaha 71x (only less ADPCM but it's not scary). Take a good ESS card. You have found so awesome motherboard! Can't you indeed find a good ISA cards for it? ESS688/1688/1868, YMF718/719 aren't expensive and they often sound good. Crystal, OPTi, AD are usually noisier.

Still learning about all of this, it has been 30 years since I've dealt with DOS 😀 I picked up the AWE64 value as a baseline first ISA card as it was pretty cheap and seemed to have great compatibility reviews. Now I'm exploring what's next, the amount of information is tremendous, have a lot to learn. In all honesty I'm not looking for perfection, but the noise of the AWE64 value did surprise me. Maybe AWE64 gold or some of the other options you listed would be better. So many choices....

CPU Tuning, Throttling

PARUS wrote:

For Pentium 4 and Core 2 there is one MSR which controls throttling - 0x19A. Command: MSRED W 19A NN Examples: MSRED W 19A 18 - […]
Show full quote

For Pentium 4 and Core 2 there is one MSR which controls throttling - 0x19A. Command:
MSRED W 19A NN
Examples:
MSRED W 19A 18 - 50% CPU speed
MSRED W 19A 14 - 25% CPU speed
MSRED W 19A 12 - 12,5% CPU speed
MSRED W 19A 2 - 100% CPU speed

You can place such command in autoexec.bat file in pure DOS menuitem section. The only limitation is not usable with memory managers. The SYS version which can be loaded before EMM/QEMM/etc exists, it is for running in config.sys lines. But its other owner did not let to upload it anywhere. But this EXE version is better than nothing, you can use it with games which don't require EMM/QEMM.

PARUS wrote:

CPU Tuning, Throttling

PARUS wrote:

For Pentium 4 and Core 2 there is one MSR which controls throttling - 0x19A. Command: MSRED W 19A NN Examples: MSRED W 19A 18 - […]
Show full quote

For Pentium 4 and Core 2 there is one MSR which controls throttling - 0x19A. Command:
MSRED W 19A NN
Examples:
MSRED W 19A 18 - 50% CPU speed
MSRED W 19A 14 - 25% CPU speed
MSRED W 19A 12 - 12,5% CPU speed
MSRED W 19A 2 - 100% CPU speed

You can place such command in autoexec.bat file in pure DOS menuitem section. The only limitation is not usable with memory managers. The SYS version which can be loaded before EMM/QEMM/etc exists, it is for running in config.sys lines. But its other owner did not let to upload it anywhere. But this EXE version is better than nothing, you can use it with games which don't reauire EMM/QEMM.

Nice, I'll give it a try. Thanks.

And this is Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds v0.49 for Live, v1.01 for Audigy the link for getting Live/Audigy DOS mixer.

PARUS wrote:

And this is Multichannel DOS mixer for DOS sound builds v0.49 for Live, v1.01 for Audigy the link for getting Live/Audigy DOS mixer.

Thank you, you've been really helpful digging out these posts. It's impressive what you've done with that dosmixer.

So, considering I have two ISA slots available and I'm willing to spend money on more and better ISA and PCI cards. What 2xISA + 1xPCI combo would you recommend for clean audio and nice midi for DOS and WIN?