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First post, by gear

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Hello,

I have a bunch of messy questions.

Is there an advantage to pair an amp with a midi device like SC 55/88, MT32, ... ?
there are sound cards for win95/98/ME that provide "ports" to plug a sound system, but the game, and his sound library use, determine if there would be surround sound or not isn't it?
But at least bass can be played by subwoofer. Is amp, plug with a stereo sound card (DOS sound cards), can do the same (splitting sound for sound system)?
Is there a DOS sound card providing ports to plug sound systems?

Thanks in advance.

Reply 1 of 9, by dr_st

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Analog audio output on PC sound cards typically comes in the form of 1 to 4 3.5mm connectors.

1 (stereo) connector - works for 2.0 and 2.1 speaker systems (in the case of 2.1 the audio system is responsible for splitting the signal and rerouting the low frequencies to the subwoofer; it is transparent to the sound card. In the standard color coding this is the green connector

2 connectors (front + rear, usually green and black) - for 4.0 and 4.1 systems - again the above applies.

3 connectors (5.1 audio or '6-channel') is the first standard where a dedicated channel for the subwoofer has been added (center/sub - orange connector). If you connect a 5.1 system, but the card outputs only stereo - bass redirection to the subwoofer may not work.

4 connectors (7.1 audio) is like 5.1 but adds a fourth pair (side speakers, gray connector). I believe the same limitations apply as to 5.1.

There is also 6.1 (I believe this system used 3 analog jacks, one of which carried three channels (center + sub + rear center). And there is also Creative proprietary 3-jack solutions for their 7.1 cards, where the side channels are split between the orange and black connectors - each of which carries 3 channels.

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Reply 2 of 9, by wiretap

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Don't forget about the awesome 7.1 analog breakout cable for Creative 5.1 and 7.1 cards. I used it on my HTPC before there were HDMI options for the PC that passed DTS-HD MA and TrueHD audio. It's great to have to easily run full quality uncompressed multichannel audio into an amp.

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Reply 3 of 9, by gear

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Hello,

tanks for your answeres.
first of all is this "7.1 analog breakout cable" have a particular name and where can it be found ?
Secondly, for DOS games, if i want a little "enhancement" of the game sounds only a 3 connectors cards can do this or sound card with a 1 or 2 connectors pair with an amp, or want ever, are able to split sound (low frequencies + all others) ?
Does an amp add something to an expandeur, for video games ?
One of the last creative labs sound cards to work with DOS are audigy sound cards, so with their connector I should have 5.1 in DOS games isn't it ?

thanks by advance.

Reply 4 of 9, by wiretap

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The cable I pictured is the Sound Blaster Home Theater Cable. I have one, but have no idea where you would buy one now.

https://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=55018

As far as DOS and true 5.1 audio, I'm not sure if that existed. If you want to expand the audio to other speakers, you could always use a custom matrix on your receiver to map the audio channels to the desired speakers.

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Reply 5 of 9, by SirNickity

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gear wrote on 2020-01-20, 18:58:

Secondly, for DOS games, if i want a little "enhancement" of the game sounds only a 3 connectors cards can do this or sound card with a 1 or 2 connectors pair with an amp, or want ever, are able to split sound (low frequencies + all others) ?
Does an amp add something to an expandeur, for video games ?
One of the last creative labs sound cards to work with DOS are audigy sound cards, so with their connector I should have 5.1 in DOS games isn't it ?

You are barking up the wrong tree.

DOS games were from an era where 11kHz mono digital audio was pretty common, and music was often provided by an OPL2 FM chip (or OPL3 in OPL2 compatibility mode) with a few channels of mono synthesis. DOS audio sucked.

Some later and more ambitious DOS games used the OPL3 to its full extent, but despite everyone having OPL3 for years, game devs mostly stuck to OPL2 for compatibility. Least common denominator and all that.

Really fancy games might have used the AWE or GUS for wavetable MIDI. That would provide TWO WHOLE CHANNELS of music. SB Pro / SB16 owners would get their 11kHz mono samples panned left/right to track on-screen action. At this point, game audio was almost on-par with 60s music production.

If you were ridiculously rich, you might have owned an MT32 or Sound Canvas. Those are external modules (mostly -- a few rare cards notwithstanding), provide hardware delay and modulation effects (read: reverb and chorus), and support panning. So they sound nice in stereo, and if played back on a Dolby Pro-Logic system, will probably sound pretty good in 4-channel L/C/R/S. If you were still playing DOS games when DPL II came out, you can now add a fabricated stereo surround channel.

None of the later Windows-era 4.0/5.0/5.1/7.1 sound cards have anything to add to those early games. The extra channels were almost entirely designed to support DVD playback, but will benefit 3D audio standards like EAX or A3D as well. I would say the vast majority used the stereo line out into stereo speakers and called it a day.

Reply 7 of 9, by SirNickity

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SirNickity wrote on 2020-01-21, 20:35:

If you were ridiculously rich, you might have owned an MT32 or Sound Canvas. [...] So they sound nice in stereo, and if played back on a Dolby Pro-Logic system, will probably sound pretty good in 4-channel L/C/R/S.

Reply 8 of 9, by gear

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SirNickity wrote on 2020-01-27, 20:10:
SirNickity wrote on 2020-01-21, 20:35:

If you were ridiculously rich, you might have owned an MT32 or Sound Canvas. [...] So they sound nice in stereo, and if played back on a Dolby Pro-Logic system, will probably sound pretty good in 4-channel L/C/R/S.

Thanks, i didn't understand audio system by amp. When dr_st wrote "audio system" i visualized a 5.1 (for example) connected to the sound card.
So i connect sound card output to amp input then amp output to subwoofer (for example), right ? That way i should have multi channel sound with stereo sound cards and/or mono/stereo video games, isn't it.

Thank you very much for your patience.

Reply 9 of 9, by SirNickity

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I'm not 100% sure what you're actually asking. If you plug a sound card or MIDI module in to a surround sound receiver (or "amp" -- if we're defining that term in the European way, and not as shorthand for "an amplifier -- literally, what which takes a low-power signal and converts it into a high-power signal"), then you'll either get very expensive mono, or fabricated (de-matrixed) audio from a stereo source.

Sound will come out of all speakers. Is it really "Surround"? No, since there won't be any front/rear locality to the sounds unless probably by coincidence. I don't think many game audio developers in the 90s were using phase to move sounds in 3D. They had just added panning to their tool belt, after all. What you will get is a ghostly reverb tail in the rear half -- that is, the majority of what is phase-opposite signal in a typical stereo audio source. Hard-panned sounds may start drifting to the rear as well, which kind of confuses the sound stage, but that's an artefact of decoding audio that wasn't ever actually encoded in matrixed surround.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the subwoofer comment.