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First post, by Der Kuenringer

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Would I gain reverb & chorus options for the OPL synth of a SB Pro / SB16 soundcard, when adding either a Creative Waveblaster II (CT1910) or a Creative AWE32 upgrade card (CT1920)?

Reply 1 of 17, by derSammler

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Afaik not. Only the AWE32/64 cards (not the upgrade) allowed that, at the same time killing hardware MPU-401 compatibility because of that.

http://retro-net.de/blog.html

Reply 3 of 17, by derSammler

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No, the EMU8000 is compatible. With the add-on card, GM works with no TSR.

On the AWE, they used two of the MIDI channels from the EMU8000 to route the OPL output through, so effects could be applied. That of course broke compatibility.

http://retro-net.de/blog.html

Reply 4 of 17, by j^aws

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Der Kuenringer wrote on 2020-03-23, 10:22:

Would I gain reverb & chorus options for the OPL synth of a SB Pro / SB16 soundcard, when adding either a Creative Waveblaster II (CT1910) or a Creative AWE32 upgrade card (CT1920)?

You need to feed the line outs from your OPL sources into external DSPs for effects processing such as chorus, reverb and other effects.

Reply 5 of 17, by Der Kuenringer

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j^aws wrote on 2020-03-26, 23:22:

You need to feed the line outs from your OPL sources into external DSPs for effects processing such as chorus, reverb and other effects.

That's a great idea, I hadn't thought of that option at all. I have no experience with DSPs though... For the described purpose, would I be better served with a dedicated sound processor, or can you recommend any software-based solutions?

Reply 6 of 17, by yawetaG

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Der Kuenringer wrote on 2020-03-29, 15:07:
j^aws wrote on 2020-03-26, 23:22:

You need to feed the line outs from your OPL sources into external DSPs for effects processing such as chorus, reverb and other effects.

That's a great idea, I hadn't thought of that option at all. I have no experience with DSPs though... For the described purpose, would I be better served with a dedicated sound processor, or can you recommend any software-based solutions?

External DSPs will sit between your soundcard outputs and your speakers, so they usually are hardware.

Keep in mind that there are units dedicated to a single type of effect (e.g. only chorus or only reverb), so you'll want a multi-effect unit that allows chaining effects (so you can have reverb and chorus at once).

Reply 8 of 17, by j^aws

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Der Kuenringer wrote on 2020-03-29, 17:00:

Would something like this suffice?
https://www.thomann.de/gb/tc_electronic_m100.htm

I'm a bit out of my depth here, so I'd be happy for more/better suggestions.

Yeah, that would more than suffice. It's beyond the tech used in your initial query in something like an AWE32. TC Electronics are well regarded for their effects algorithms. That unit has some nice realtime control knobs and 24bit AD/DA aswell.

Reply 9 of 17, by Jo22

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Hello. If it's only about a 3D effect, many older speaker boxes will do.
Not seldomly, they also had a "3D" button which added echo and delay to the stereo signal.
Alternatively, some cheap surrsound sound boxes existed, like that by Boeder (I made a video of its internals).
The chip is something like a TA8173AP, of which the datasheet includes a sample circuit..

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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 10 of 17, by Der Kuenringer

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Jo22 wrote on 2020-03-30, 07:43:
Hello. If it's only about a 3D effect, many older speaker boxes will do. Not seldomly, they also had a "3D" button which added e […]
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Hello. If it's only about a 3D effect, many older speaker boxes will do.
Not seldomly, they also had a "3D" button which added echo and delay to the stereo signal.
Alternatively, some cheap surrsound sound boxes existed, like that by Boeder (I made a video of its internals).
The chip is something like a TA8173AP, of which the datasheet includes a sample circuit..

Now that you mention it, I remember a lot of amplifiers I've looked at in the recent past had such a 3D DSP, like most of the iFi range of portable amplifiers. I intend to use headphones, so that might indeed be an option to look into.
Thank you all for your help!

Reply 11 of 17, by Kamerat

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Some sound cards like the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz can add chorus and reverb in real time on any input. Did it myself on this recording.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
YouTube channel

Reply 12 of 17, by Der Kuenringer

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Kamerat wrote on 2020-04-01, 21:25:

Some sound cards like the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz can add chorus and reverb in real time on any input. Did it myself on this recording.

Ha, i recently aquired one! Turtle Beach cards never disappoint 🙂
Would this work in pure DOS as well?

Reply 13 of 17, by Kamerat

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Der Kuenringer wrote on 2020-04-02, 18:47:

Ha, i recently aquired one! Turtle Beach cards never disappoint 🙂
Would this work in pure DOS as well?

No, pretty sure it doesn't so you need to run it on a second computer or run your games or programs from within Windows.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
YouTube channel

Reply 14 of 17, by leileilol

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derSammler wrote on 2020-03-23, 10:25:

Afaik not. Only the AWE32/64 cards (not the upgrade) allowed that, at the same time killing hardware MPU-401 compatibility because of that.

AWE32 doesn't do effects to FM, just AWE64.

by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x

Reply 15 of 17, by Cloudschatze

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leileilol wrote on 2020-04-05, 01:06:
derSammler wrote on 2020-03-23, 10:25:

Afaik not. Only the AWE32/64 cards (not the upgrade) allowed that, at the same time killing hardware MPU-401 compatibility because of that.

AWE32 doesn't do effects to FM, just AWE64.

All of the AWE32 variants bearing both the CT1747 and EMU8000 route the digital OPL3 output of the former through the effects engine of the latter. The CT2760, CT3780, CT3900, CT3910, and CT3980 fall into this category, while the CQM-bearing CT3990, notably, does not.

Regarding derSammler's statement, routing the OPL3 output through the EMU8000 saved the need for an additional DAC, relevant analog-path components, and a mixer input channel. What does any of that have to do with MPU-401 compatibility?

Reply 17 of 17, by Cloudschatze

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leileilol wrote on 2020-04-05, 03:40:

But does that mean AWEUTIL will let you do it?

Indeed, yes. Several of the (non-RIX) examples I'd posted in the "technically impressive FM" thread were digitally captured (S/PDIF) from a CT3900, and have EMU8000 reverb and chorus applied.