VOGONS


First post, by Mindlink

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I recently bought myself an old Pentium MMX 166Mhz machine.
It was advertised as coming with a SB16, but upon arrival I discovered it had only an onboard sound chip. (with no drivers included) I contacted the seller and he told me he forgot to put it in before shipping, so he would send it to me in the mail. In the meantime I rumbled through what was left of my old PC stuff in the garage, and found a SB Live, and a Gamesurround Fortissimo III. While I was waiting for the SB16 to arrive, I got another message from the seller telling me it wasn't actually a Sound Blaster, but just a "SB16 compatible". The card arrived and it turned out to be a Crystal card with an CX4235 chip.
The onboard audio chip was also a Crystal chip, a CS4238b, and the Fortissimo uses a CS4624.
So, which of these four card would be best to use in my machine? I'll primarily be using it for DOS gaming (and some Win 3.11 games/multimedia software), for the time being, though I'll probably install Win95/98 eventually as well.

Reply 1 of 10, by Oetker

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The Fortissimo is out as it's a PCI card, same for SBLive. Maybe the onboard card doesn't have a game port or sounds noisier than the ISA card, you'd have to try. However it seems the 4235 has messed up OPL sound, see Which Soundcard for a Pentium 60 MHZ

This tool should allow you to use them in DOS UNISOUND - Universal ISA PnP Sound Card Driver for DOS v0.81b

Reply 2 of 10, by chinny22

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CX4235 doesn't look to be that great
https://www.philscomputerlab.com/crystal-cx4235.html

CS4238b looks to just be a more integrated version of the CX4235 but has 3D audio...yay

CS4624 seems ok
DOS FM Music on Crystal SoundFusion CS4624 PCI

Would only use a Live for pure dos PC as a last resort. The drivers may be a bit heavy for a 166Mhz PC in Win9x as well.
I'd stick with an ISA card, out of your selection I'd probably just go with the onboard if it's on the ISA bus.

Late dos early Win9x which a 166 is perfect for I'd go with an AWE or something with SB16 support, the 16bit isn't so important in dos but starts coming into play for win9x games.
You wont need EAX for early win9x games.

Reply 3 of 10, by appiah4

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4238 is probably a 3D integrated version of the 4237 and not the 4235 which was actually corrected in 4236. 4236/4237 both have very good FM Synthesis (even though it is distinctly different from Yamaha OPL3) so stick with the onboard sound chip for best compatibility and quality of the stuff you have at hand.

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Reply 4 of 10, by dionb

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Second that. There's not a lot of love for the Crystal chips, but - apart from the broken CS4235 - they are solid designs used on some seriously high-end cards, consider that the Terratec EWS64XL is based on the CS4236. The CS4238 adds a digital audio in (at least for on-board Crystal wavetable) and 3D to that. If the implementation is good (not too noisy) it's a fine controller, definitely better than brain-dead CS4235 or PCI cards needing TSRs (and not adding anything for DOS either). The SBLive might add value for Win98, so you could insert that in the system, just not use it under DOS.

Reply 5 of 10, by gdjacobs

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I love the PCM from my CS4232 card even if the version of CrystalFM on the companion chip is a let down (in my opinion). Cards that combine true OPL3 (in genuine or 100% clone form) with Crystal PCM are the real gems. Cards like the TB Tropez series and Acer S23 -- absolutely legendary.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 6 of 10, by keropi

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The only difference between 4237 and 4238 is the 3d algorithm they use: 4237 is using SRS and 4238 Q-Sound. The rest of the features are the same - even the digital interface for the wavetable, we use that in Orpheus to interface the OPL3 to the 4237 so there is no need for double conversions and extra dacs...

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Reply 7 of 10, by Mindlink

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keropi wrote on 2020-04-23, 07:13:

The only difference between 4237 and 4238 is the 3d algorithm they use: 4237 is using SRS and 4238 Q-Sound. The rest of the features are the same - even the digital interface for the wavetable, we use that in Orpheus to interface the OPL3 to the 4237 so there is no need for double conversions and extra dacs...

Does that mean I can use the drivers for the 4237? I haven't been able to find any drivers specific for the 4238, the few links I found all went to a dead page on the official Crystal pages.

Reply 8 of 10, by Mindlink

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Oetker wrote on 2020-04-22, 12:39:

The Fortissimo is out as it's a PCI card, same for SBLive. Maybe the onboard card doesn't have a game port or sounds noisier than the ISA card, you'd have to try. However it seems the 4235 has messed up OPL sound, see Which Soundcard for a Pentium 60 MHZ

This tool should allow you to use them in DOS UNISOUND - Universal ISA PnP Sound Card Driver for DOS v0.81b

Do you think that would with the on-board chip as well? From what I could see in the description, the tool is mainly for ISA cards, not sure if that includes onboard chips.
I'll give it a try though.

Reply 9 of 10, by Oetker

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Mindlink wrote on 2020-04-23, 17:49:
Oetker wrote on 2020-04-22, 12:39:

The Fortissimo is out as it's a PCI card, same for SBLive. Maybe the onboard card doesn't have a game port or sounds noisier than the ISA card, you'd have to try. However it seems the 4235 has messed up OPL sound, see Which Soundcard for a Pentium 60 MHZ

This tool should allow you to use them in DOS UNISOUND - Universal ISA PnP Sound Card Driver for DOS v0.81b

Do you think that would with the on-board chip as well? From what I could see in the description, the tool is mainly for ISA cards, not sure if that includes onboard chips.
I'll give it a try though.

Yes, from what I gather the on-board chip is internally ISA.

Reply 10 of 10, by keropi

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Mindlink wrote on 2020-04-23, 17:38:

Does that mean I can use the drivers for the 4237? I haven't been able to find any drivers specific for the 4238, the few links I found all went to a dead page on the official Crystal pages.

yes, they use the same driver - in fact the whole series use the same driver

ulLMI1o.png

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website